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Thread: Combatives University

  1. #21

    Answers

    I heard about this thread and thought I would pop on here to answer any questions anyone might have.

    First, the intent of the Combatives belt system grew out of the need to differentiate between Combatives instructors in the Army who were doing the right things to further their training from those who just attended the MACP courses and want to be teachers without being students. In other words, there were many people who had graduated the courses and were "Combatives Master Trainers" who were not even blue belt level grapplers. This led to people unofficially adopting the BJJ belt system as the default ranking system. That created a whole new set of problems, primarily that people could focus exclusively on ground grappling and not be proficient at all at the other skills a modern warrior needs. Many of the originators of the MACP system have not only become black belts in BJJ since the program started but we also largely came from special operations units and have extensive experience in Combat marksmanship. We also know what we need from our teammates in battle.

    The Army is spread out all over the world so we needed a way to encourage people to do the right things that could be tested remotely. We have also all seen attempts at creating belting systems via the internet, i.e. the system Rorion Gracies sons created, and know that sort of thing simply does not work. Proscribing techniques and methods is also not the best way to encourage innovation and excellence.

    Once we had the system ready we realized there was no reason to restrict it to people within the Army and that in fact if we opened it up we could get the best instructors in the world on board. We have all trained with various civilian experts and know that most of the true innovation is happening from guys like Craig Douglas, Cecil Burch, Cliff Byerly, etc. In fact, there is a whole community of people independently doing the right things, competing at high levels in BJJ/MMA, action shooting events, tactical games, etc. What we needed was a way to differentiate all of those people from the others who are focused on just one aspect of the warrior skill set.

    So that is what the system is. It is built around the concept of Deeds of Arms. The levels are basically resume-building platforms. You post videos of yourself accomplishing Deeds. Fighting, shooting, lifting, and proving you have trauma medical training. Your posts are reviewed by Combatives black belts. That group started out as the toughest guys in the Army but now includes an expanding list of no-shit tough guys who have the skills to back up their words. There are no paper tigers and no charity promotions.

    What other questions do you have?

    Matt

  2. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    ATL
    Strength standard seems ridiculous for level of martial skill. Those are elite athelte strength standards, but maybe I am a pussy. Would love to hear South Narcs take on the strength side of things.

  3. #23
    The initial belt (grey belt) is not the 1X-1.5x-2x standard. It is considerably lower. I don't think the 1X-1.5x-2x standard is too much to ask for a black belt. I won't post the grey belt standard unless Matt gives permission, but I don't think anyone who regularly works out will have any problems with it.

  4. #24

    Standards?

    [QUOTE=Matt Larsen;1392006]I heard about this thread and thought I would pop on here to answer any questions anyone might have.

    First, the intent of the Combatives belt system grew out of the need to differentiate between Combatives instructors in the Army who were doing the right things to further their training from those who just attended the MACP courses and want to be teachers without being students. In other words, there were many people who had graduated the courses and were "Combatives Master Trainers" who were not even blue belt level grapplers. This led to people unofficially adopting the BJJ belt system as the default ranking system. That created a whole new set of problems, primarily that people could focus exclusively on ground grappling and not be proficient at all at the other skills a modern warrior needs. Many of the originators of the MACP system have not only become black belts in BJJ since the program started but we also largely came from special operations units and have extensive experience in Combat marksmanship. We also know what we need from our teammates in battle.

    The Army is spread out all over the world so we needed a way to encourage people to do the right things that could be tested remotely. We have also all seen attempts at creating belting systems via the internet, i.e. the system Rorion Gracies sons created, and know that sort of thing simply does not work. Proscribing techniques and methods is also not the best way to encourage innovation and excellence.

    Once we had the system ready we realized there was no reason to restrict it to people within the Army and that in fact if we opened it up we could get the best instructors in the world on board. We have all trained with various civilian experts and know that most of the true innovation is happening from guys like Craig Douglas, Cecil Burch, Cliff Byerly, etc. In fact, there is a whole community of people independently doing the right things, competing at high levels in BJJ/MMA, action shooting events, tactical games, etc. What we needed was a way to differentiate all of those people from the others who are focused on just one aspect of the warrior skill set.

    So that is what the system is. It is built around the concept of Deeds of Arms. The levels are basically resume-building platforms. You post videos of yourself accomplishing Deeds. Fighting, shooting, lifting, and proving you have trauma medical training. Your posts are reviewed by Combatives black belts. That group started out as the toughest guys in the Army but now includes an expanding list of no-shit tough guys who have the skills to back up their words. There are no paper tigers and no charity promotions.

    What other questions do you have?

    Matt[/QUOTE

    Matt,

    Thank you for putting out more info here on P-F!
    How long has this program been running on the civi side, (outside of .mil/MACP)?
    I looked around on your website for standards. If we give the contact data, does the free preview lay out the grad standards for that belt? Or do we get the standards once we fully enroll?
    I think what you guys are doing is pretty cool. At first I thought it was gimmicky but after more research it’s nice to see someone legit creating a standard to work for and achieve - combining fighting/grappling, shooting and strength.

    Is prior experience accounted for? Let’s say your a BJJ blue belt training for 6yrs w/ a couple of tournaments, and a CSAT Qual’d instructor…is there any proficiency advancement w/ credible documentation?

    I noticed there were about 7-10’ish fight videos for Grey Belt. Does each video have different specific requirements?

    Thanks for your time!

    Jeremy

  5. #25
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    I seem to have misunderstood the intent behind this program.

    As a way of certification and seeing how you stack up to the tough guys out there, it seems interesting.

    A question for you Matt:

    Is the manner in which you fight relevant to these standards?

    I'm guessing some dude doing berimbolos from a double guard pull probably doesn't mean much for something intended to be a combatives system.

    After all, I am told that takedown skills are really the only true way into Valhalla.

    Thanks for making yourself available for information.

    Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

  6. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    ATL
    Flamingo, thanks, yeah that makes more sense.

  7. #27

    Expirience and standards

    Jeremy,

    We launched on July 4th this year.

    There is a preview feature for each course you can sign in to without fully enrolling. I am not sure if you can see all of the standards but I can tell you what they are. I'll list at the bottom of this post.

    Prior experience is the whole point. To qualify for the grey belt, you must be fighting at the blue belt level. No one is going to be able to do that via the internet so you must have been training long enough to have received your blue belt and have acquired enough skill and fought in enough tournaments to have the required victories. There are no time limits or requirements in the program. The standards are the skills and accomplishments.

    The requirements are victory. If you defeat ten opponents as a blue belt, you are a decent blue belt level fighter, and that is the standard.

    The marksmanship and lifting standards are fairly low on the first few levels. The program is meant to encourage people to train. Most of the Combatives instructors in the Army were already proficient with basic soldier skills, rifle marksmanship, combat lifesavor, etc. So at grey and green, those standards are fairly easy to meet. At Brown, they take a pretty good jump. Still fairly achievable with a little effort, USPSA C/B class shooter, IDPA Sharpshooter. The intent is competence with weaponry and getting people doing real training with firearms in a way the Army system just can't do. The strength standard are the same, They come from https://strengthlevel.com/. Grey requires beginner-level strength to get people started. Green requires novice-level. Brown requires intermediate level, which is quite high for most people.

    So if you have been training for a while, you will be able to go straight through the lower ranks. We have had a couple go through grey and green within the two months the system has been up.

    Matt

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post

    Is the manner in which you fight relevant to these standards?

    I'm guessing some dude doing berimbolos from a double guard pull probably doesn't mean much for something intended to be a combatives system.

    After all, I am told that takedown skills are really the only true way into Valhalla.
    It is less important at the lower ranks. But all of the proofs are vetted by some of the current black belts. If they don't display fighting ability the board will reject them and ask for different proof. But I'll tell you a funny story about the berimbolo. One of our black belts is a guy who was both a Ranger Regiment guy and later an assaulter in a tier one counter-terror unit. He was scoffing at that kind of BJJ so he went out to train with the Mendes brothers for two weeks and came home to take everyone's back at will. LOL! Of course the same guy was a monster fighter with thousands of raids under his belt from Iraq and Afghanistan. So, doing wazoo bs competition grappling stuff isn't bad, just not what the board of black belts wants to see to prove you can win real fights.

    And you definitely don't get into Valhalla pulling guard.

    Matt

  9. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Larsen View Post
    Jeremy,

    We launched on July 4th this year.

    There is a preview feature for each course you can sign in to without fully enrolling. I am not sure if you can see all of the standards but I can tell you what they are. I'll list at the bottom of this post.

    Prior experience is the whole point. To qualify for the grey belt, you must be fighting at the blue belt level. No one is going to be able to do that via the internet so you must have been training long enough to have received your blue belt and have acquired enough skill and fought in enough tournaments to have the required victories. There are no time limits or requirements in the program. The standards are the skills and accomplishments.

    The requirements are victory. If you defeat ten opponents as a blue belt, you are a decent blue belt level fighter, and that is the standard.

    The marksmanship and lifting standards are fairly low on the first few levels. The program is meant to encourage people to train. Most of the Combatives instructors in the Army were already proficient with basic soldier skills, rifle marksmanship, combat lifesavor, etc. So at grey and green, those standards are fairly easy to meet. At Brown, they take a pretty good jump. Still fairly achievable with a little effort, USPSA C/B class shooter, IDPA Sharpshooter. The intent is competence with weaponry and getting people doing real training with firearms in a way the Army system just can't do. The strength standard are the same, They come from https://strengthlevel.com/. Grey requires beginner-level strength to get people started. Green requires novice-level. Brown requires intermediate level, which is quite high for most people.

    So if you have been training for a while, you will be able to go straight through the lower ranks. We have had a couple go through grey and green within the two months the system has been up.

    Matt
    Standards, competence, and encouragement.
    Keep the leadership momentum!
    Thank you for the transparent reply ! - insert “rock n’ roll” emoji here.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Polecat View Post
    Strength standard seems ridiculous for level of martial skill. Those are elite athelte strength standards, but maybe I am a pussy. Would love to hear South Narcs take on the strength side of things.
    I'm 47. I've goofed around with weight lifting for a long time but never seriously. Never had a trainer, never really made any effort to eat around it (although I've been working a diet lately). I have read some books and looked at stuff on the web. I've never been an athlete, was a terrible wrestler for few years in junior high and lately I'm a terrible BJJ blue belt.

    I can easily meet the bench req for the black belt and am not far off the squat and DL. I've seen those req's before somewhere but I don't remember where.

    I'm not real interested in this program, but I am going to try and work my legs and back and try and meet the requirement just to have a lifting goal.

    I am confident I can meet that req and I promise I am not anything like an elite athlete.

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