Pistol Brace Amnesty

[jh9]

That, and once a long gun/rifle, always a long gun/rifle; you can't convert it into a pistol.

Thompson-Center successfully argued differently to SCOTUS against the ATF. The ATF's current interpretation seems relatively straightforward. I'm sure a lawyer could elucidate further, otherwise or in some non-euclidean direction. But I've only ever heard them say the same thing the ATF's 2011-4 ruling says to my non-lawyer brain.

If it starts as a pistol (or at least, not a rifle) it can be converted to a non-NFA rifle and back again at will. Converting it to a non-NFA 16+" barreled rifle is not permanent. It's also why unless there's some peculiar state law (like CA, IIRC) if you start with a bare receivered anything always build it out as a pistol first so you have the flexibility to convert it to whatever non-NFA configuration you want when you want.

a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a
barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration
not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol)

[Evil_Ed]

Thompson-Center successfully argued differently to SCOTUS against the ATF. The ATF's current interpretation seems relatively straightforward. I'm sure a lawyer could elucidate further, otherwise or in some non-euclidean direction. But I've only ever heard them say the same thing the ATF's 2011-4 ruling says to my non-lawyer brain.

If it starts as a pistol (or at least, not a rifle) it can be converted to a non-NFA rifle and back again at will. Converting it to a non-NFA 16+" barreled rifle is not permanent. It's also why unless there's some peculiar state law (like CA, IIRC) if you start with a bare receivered anything always build it out as a pistol first so you have the flexibility to convert it to whatever non-NFA configuration you want when you want.

Right - I should have been more clear, if it starts as a rifle, it is forever a rifle.

If you transfer an AR lower, if you build it as a pistol, you have the flexibility to convert it from pistol to rifle and back. If however you immediately put a stock on it instead of a brace or bare tube it's considered a rifle and can only ever be in rifle configuration.

In Minecraft, that is; because not every home comes with an ATF agent to watch you assemble your new lower or receiver that was transferred as "other" for the first time, so whether it was originally assembled as a pistol or a rifle...shrug.

[MountainRaven]

Right - I should have been more clear, if it starts as a rifle, it is forever a rifle.

If you transfer an AR lower, if you build it as a pistol, you have the flexibility to convert it from pistol to rifle and back. If however you immediately put a stock on it instead of a brace or bare tube it's considered a rifle and can only ever be in rifle configuration.

In Minecraft, that is; because not every home comes with an ATF agent to watch you assemble your new lower or receiver that was transferred as "other" for the first time, so whether it was originally assembled as a pistol or a rifle...shrug.

My understanding is that whether it has a stock on it or not is irrelevant, so long as it has never been assembled in a rifle configuration.

So, it can have a stock on it - so long as it isn't assembled. Take a lower with a stock, that has never had an upper on it, pull the stock off, slap a pistol brace* on it, and then slap a ≤16" barreled upper on it and you have a pistol. But if it has a stock on it and you slap an upper on it - any upper - and now it's a rifle and can never be a pistol.

*Pre-2023.

[Evil_Ed]

My understanding is that whether it has a stock on it or not is irrelevant, so long as it has never been assembled in a rifle configuration.

So, it can have a stock on it - so long as it isn't assembled. Take a lower with a stock, that has never had an upper on it, pull the stock off, slap a pistol brace* on it, and then slap a ≤16" barreled upper on it and you have a pistol. But if it has a stock on it and you slap an upper on it - any upper - and now it's a rifle and can never be a pistol.

*Pre-2023.

Wasn't how it was explained to me, but I'm not a lawyer. There's pretty much no firearm configuration that I know of or can think of where you can turn an AR lower that has a stock affixed to it into a pistol of any kind. Title 1 rifle, SBR, SBS, AOW...but it can't be a pistol.

A rifle extension without a stock, or a carbine extension without a stock is good (again as it was explained to me) - if a stock body gets attached, you magically cross an invisible line.

Again, not a lawyer, but that's how it was explained to me.

*shrug* feel free to write the ATF for further clarification..I'm sure they can sort it right out..

[DMF13]

We discussed turning a handgun into a rifle on page 98, of this thread:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ng#post1479969

I think the final statement in my post is still pretty good advice: "Probably best to seek clarification from ATF before doing some of the things mentioned here."

[WDR]

We discussed turning a handgun into a rifle on page 98, of this thread:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ng#post1479969

I think the final statement in my post is still pretty good advice: "Probably best to seek clarification from ATF before doing some of the things mentioned here."

I think it's poor advice. They don't know what is or isn't either. They make it up as they go. If you followed their advice, er rules, er... guidelines,... ahhh, hell... what they said a few years ago, you'd still be in the wrong today. At least in their eyes.

[HCM]

[Cool Breeze]

My understanding is that whether it has a stock on it or not is irrelevant, so long as it has never been assembled in a rifle configuration.

So, it can have a stock on it - so long as it isn't assembled. Take a lower with a stock, that has never had an upper on it, pull the stock off, slap a pistol brace* on it, and then slap a ≤16" barreled upper on it and you have a pistol. But if it has a stock on it and you slap an upper on it - any upper - and now it's a rifle and can never be a pistol.

*Pre-2023.

Exactly this. A bcm lower with stock (for example) is transferred as a firearm/other and not a rifle on the form. A stock on a lower does not make it a rifle - you also need the upper with barrel (and it's associated length) to be treated as a rifle. If you take the stock off and then add the upper with a brace, it is not a rifle. Pre-2023 of course. No idea now.

[YVK]

https://thereload.com/app/uploads/20...nction-003.pdf

[Totem Polar]

https://thereload.com/app/uploads/20...nction-003.pdf

Very interesting.