Pistol Brace Amnesty

[StraitR]

1443286[/URL]]This was essentially my thinking. My FMP 9mm pistol build now looks to be rendered a felonious weapon unless I swap barrels or start a Form 1. My thoughts are since im not at all concerned about whatever “List” it would put me on, I might as well go ahead & start the form 1 process to SBR my pistol and take advantage of the free tax stamp. I am aware that it could be months and even years before the legal challenges or this rule and the red tape is entirely sorted out,… But since I will be considered as “in compliance” and “legal“ in the eyes of the ATF until such time as there is a final determination,… It seemed prudent to go ahead and start the process.

My biggest question however going forward is,.. say somewhere down the line after I’ve already started and/or filled out the forms to form one and process my pistol as an SBR. Supposing there is a reversal of the rule, whether through legal challenges or change of administration, policy, etc… Will I forever be stuck with this as an SBR having started the process? Or should there be a reversal on the pistol brace business, will the weapon simply revert, go back to being considered a PISTOL? Something Fully, Legally concealable and carry-able with my MI CPL?

I am aware that you can convert a pistol to a rifle,…. I’ve even considered just going ahead and buying a 16 inch barrel for the upper. But it appears you cannot convert a rifle back to a pistol. So Does starting the form1 process on this weapon irrevocably relegate my AR style,9mm PCC to being a RIFLE? Short barreled or otherwise?

Two options….

If eForm has not been approved and is still submitted/pending, you can withdraw the application.

If approved, with PDF file stamp in hand, you can request via ATF that the item be removed from NFA registry. Of course, you would need to convert the item to non-NFA configuration first. This can be done with any SBR or SBS. If you wanted to SBR it again, you must go through the application process again and pay $200 (again or first time if using this pistol brace tax forbearance thing).

[kwb377]

Two options….

If eForm has not been approved and is still submitted/pending, you can withdraw the application.

If approved, with PDF file stamp in hand, you can request via ATF that the item be removed from NFA registry. Of course, you would need to convert the item to non-NFA configuration first. This can be done with any SBR or SBS. If you wanted to SBR it again, you must go through the application process again and pay $200 (again or first time if using this pistol brace tax forbearance thing).

I think his point is if you Form 1 your braced pistol into an SBR, and the ruling is later overturned...you can't (under current law) turn the rifle back into the pistol that they forced you to turn into a rifle.


Or in the event the ruling is overturned, would there possibly be a provision that anyone that Form 1'ed their pistol would have the opportunity to remove it from the registry and return it to the pistol configuration it was in previously?

[4RNR]

I don't know if this was already posted. I skimmed quickly but didn't see it.

What I'm hearing is that even a buffer tube will be considered a brace if it isn't crucial to the function and can be shouldered. This apparently includes the folding mechanism that allow an AR to function and have a folding (buffer tube) stock

I have no dog in this, It's something I heard so I'm passing along in case it's true (sounds like it is)

[Screwball]

I think his point is if you Form 1 your braced pistol into an SBR, and the ruling is later overturned...you can't (under current law) turn the rifle back into the pistol that they forced you to turn into a rifle.

Or in the event the ruling is overturned, would there possibly be a provision that anyone that Form 1'ed their pistol would have the opportunity to remove it from the registry and return it to the pistol configuration it was in previously?

You Form 1ing the pistol makes it a rifle… you can take it off the registry, but you’d need to bump the barrel up to 16+”. The whole “once a pistol is always a pistol” might work in some circumstances, but the Form 1 manufacturers it as a rifle… verses a person adding the 16” barrel to a pistol, then the stock.

Would be similar to SBSing a TAC-14, then pulling it off the registry… you couldn’t go back to the “other firearm” status, since it had a stock. Off the registry means add 18+” barrel.

That being said, you SBR a receiver. I’m planning on keeping one brace tucked away. Others… I may give/sell to other people to do whatever with (if they can get a free stamp, I can’t judge), as I’ll be swapping in stocks. If stuff gets overturned in the courts, stripped lower, parts kit and a buffer tube. Now I got a pistol lower, so I can put an upper on to travel when legal without needing to file a 5320.20. I like options, but I also really like SBRs.

[BillSWPA]

I don't know if this was already posted. I skimmed quickly but didn't see it.

What I'm hearing is that even a buffer tube will be considered a brace if it isn't crucial to the function and can be shouldered. This apparently includes the folding mechanism that allow an AR to function and have a folding (buffer tube) stock

I have no dog in this, It's something I heard so I'm passing along in case it's true (sounds like it is)

My understanding is that a standard length pistol buffer tube with no indexing holes is not a problem. Although the notice mentions 6” to 6 1/2”, it appears that 7.25” is a very common, standard length and should be fine.

When you start deviating from that configuration, all bets are off.

A folding adapter can add approximately an inch to the overall length of the tube, is unnecessary for functioning, and is mentioned in the notice as something that could be viewed disfavorably.

A perfectly round tube that is longer than necessary for functioning could be viewed disfavorably.

A tube with indexing holes to allow a shoulder stock or brace to be installed and then adjusted to different lengths could be viewed disfavorably if I recall what I read correctly.

When I say could be viewed disfavorably, I do not know whether it will hurt or how much it will hurt. There is no clear guidance whatsoever about what is required to cross the line into SBR. It is essentially we will know it when we see it.

I have been suggesting standard length, featureless, perfectly round buffer tubes with nothing added to them, no sights other than unmagnified red dots with unlimited eye relief, and a total weight less than 120 oz. because as best I can tell, this configuration falls on the correct side of the line. The more a configuration deviates from this one, the less certain compliance becomes.

Broken record disclaimer: I am not your lawyer, this is general information and not legal advice, consult a lawyer admitted in your state about your specific gun.

[StraitR]

I think his point is if you Form 1 your braced pistol into an SBR, and the ruling is later overturned...you can't (under current law) turn the rifle back into the pistol that they forced you to turn into a rifle.


Or in the event the ruling is overturned, would there possibly be a provision that anyone that Form 1'ed their pistol would have the opportunity to remove it from the registry and return it to the pistol configuration it was in previously?

Ive not seem any proof that a firearm that starts as a pistol, then stamped as an SBR, cannot be then reconfigured to a pistol again. I’ve read this entire thread, and read through links posted that had nothing definitive. Can someone point me to the exact statute, letter, or ATF language that says a pistol registered as an NFA SBR cannot be converted back to a pistol?

If that’s true, then we’re saying if you SBR your Glock 17 and drop it into a B&T USW-G kit, you can never take it out of that chassis and utilize it as a pistol again? I don’t believe that to be the case. Happy to learn something new. Happens a lot for me here, which is why I’ve stuck around for a decade.

[StraitR]

You Form 1ing the pistol makes it a rifle… you can take it off the registry, but you’d need to bump the barrel up to 16+”. The whole “once a pistol is always a pistol” might work in some circumstances, but the Form 1 manufacturers it as a rifle… verses a person adding the 16” barrel to a pistol, then the stock.

Where does it say this?

[Screwball]

Ive not seem any proof that a firearm that starts as a pistol, then stamped as an SBR, cannot be then reconfigured to a pistol again. I’ve read this entire thread, and read through links posted that had nothing definitive. Can someone point me to the exact statute, letter, or ATF language that says a pistol registered as an NFA SBR cannot be converted back to a pistol?

If that’s true, then we’re saying if you SBR your Glock 17 and drop it into a B&T USW-G kit, you can never take it out of that chassis and utilize it as a pistol again? I don’t believe that to be the case. Happy to learn something new. Happens a lot for me here, which is why I’ve stuck around for a decade.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...stols/download

Read page 3, second full paragraph (begins with “therefore”).

For your Glock scenario… the part that makes the difference is “if you SBR your Glock 17.” If you put a 16” barrel before the stock aspect… then yes, you can go back to the pistol. That was the whole Thompson Center and Beretta Neos kit.

[StraitR]

1443349[/URL]]https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...stols/download

Read page 3, second full paragraph (begins with “therefore”).

For your Glock scenario… the part that makes the difference is “if you SBR your Glock 17.” If you put a 16” barrel before the stock aspect… then yes, you can go back to the pistol. That was the whole Thompson Center and Beretta Neos kit.

I think people are interpreting that wrong. That is speaking to parts kits, not pistols, and it still doesn’t say you can’t reconfigure a SBR back to a pistol, If anything, the last sentence of that same paragraph speaks to returning items to original pistol configuration, saying “Likewise, because it is the same weapon when reconfigured as a pistol, no “weapon made from a rifle” subject to the NFA has been made.”

[WobblyPossum]

Well, I submitted my eForm 1 as a trust. We'll see what happens since the firearm wasn't owned by the trust prior to January 13, 2023. I'm betting that date is a placeholder though since the rule hasn't been published in the federal register and thus isn't in effect yet. I'll mail the fingerprints and the CLEO documents on Saturday morning. Also, the eForms website started crashing for me as soon as I submitted my complete application. For some reason I can access the site on my cell phone but not on my desktop using any browser I've tried: Brave, Chrome, and Edge. I tried clearing all my cookies but it hasn't made a difference.