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Thread: Sleeper Pistols: Underrated, Underpriced, and Readily Available

  1. #91
    I think the PSA Dagger is in this category. Basically a Gen 3 G19 clone with a much improved grip. I bought one to play around with on the range because I already own a bunch of G19 mags.. I ended up liking it enough I took a class with it. For $299, the base gun is a good buy now that PSA has worked through the initial production issues.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximus83 View Post
    Not sure I see the validity in directly comparing an M&P with an enhanced/fitted barrel, to other factory options.

    Why not a comparison like this?

    * Factory configuration: Run a G19 Gen 5 marksman barrel against a M&P 2.0 compact with the new bladed trigger at 25y, with a variety of defensive and practice ammo. 5-shot groups, rested from a bag. Which one wins? I observed firsthand with my sample of one G19 Gen 5, and M&P M2.0 with the new trigger. Tested both over a 2-week period, 6 range sessions. I kept the G19. It is capable of combat accuracy at 25y. The factory M&P 2.0 even with new trigger, was not. I've consistently observed this accuracy issue with factory guns across the Gen 1 and Gen 2 M&P's I've owned. The only one that was slightly better at 25y was a 5" Performance edition.

    * Enhanced barrel configuration: Run a G19 Gen 5 with say a fitted Barsto barrel against an M&P 2.0 compact with a gunsmith-fit Apex barrel. Which one wins? If both barrels are expertly fitted, would be interesting to see the outcome of this one. Bet it would be close. As a case in point, you can find plenty of evidence like this Hilton Yam video about his enhanced G19 with a KKM barrel. He's getting 5-shot groups of 1.25" and 1.5" with CCI 147gr Blazer, using a drop-in KKM barrel. He says he "consistently" gets groups under 1.5" with this range ammo.

    That's pretty good...but it's still not the 1" or less you can get from a gunsmith fitted M&P barrel.

    It is likely angels dancing on the head of a pin...as I am unlikely to shoot that well basically ever.

    Still...better is better and to me, the thumb safety, glock 19 sized gun with a 4.0 lb trigger that won't suddenly become gritty and horrific like my gen 5 G19

    And as a fan of 1911s...well...this gun is basically 95% of a 1911.

    Buuuut since I carry a P07, I have yet to take my own advice.

    Yet.

    Not trying to crap on peoples Glocks...mostly trying to crap on guns like the EDCX9 lol. If anything, I feel those are the most overrated guns.

    Well, those and 1911s

    I'll soon be selling a 1911 and probably use that to fund a M&P setup the way I like.

    Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

  3. #93
    I'm still perfectly happy with my FN FNS 9mm. Accuracy was never a problem with these guns, and mine has been 100% reliable.
    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem
    I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude
    -Thomas Jefferson
    I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by 358156hp View Post
    I'm still perfectly happy with my FN FNS 9mm. Accuracy was never a problem with these guns, and mine has been 100% reliable.
    Correct, the real problem was it's track record of discharging without user input while holstered, etc.

  5. #95
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    May 2022
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    East Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by Thy.Will.Be.Done View Post
    Correct, the real problem was it's track record of discharging without user input while holstered, etc.
    Oddly enough, after owning one for 6 years and carrying it about half that time, Iíve never had this issue. Same for a Glock 17, that Iíve had since 1990, even though they were claimed unsafe because of others shootings themselves in the butt, when holstering.

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    That's pretty good...but it's still not the 1" or less you can get from a gunsmith fitted M&P barrel.
    I'd be interested in seeing an accuracy comparison of gunsmith fit barrel(s) in say, a Glock with a Barsto vs. an M&P with an Apex barrel.

    I don't understand conceptually what would make the M&P more mechanically accurate vs. it's peers looking at each if the lockup is tight on both. I don't think slide to frame fit is much better, for example.

    I tend to geek-out over accuracy at 25 and 50 yards, so 1" at 25 yds. and 3" at 50 yds. for 10-round groups would have me very interested, even if I'm not up to extracting that accuracy fully.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moped View Post
    Oddly enough, after owning one for 6 years and carrying it about half that time, Iíve never had this issue. Same for a Glock 17, that Iíve had since 1990, even though they were claimed unsafe because of others shootings themselves in the butt, when holstering.
    Respectfully, not an apples to apples comparison. The FNS had a documented, verified issue of firing without a trigger pull and a recall (or "optional upgrade" I don't recall the semantics well) was issued. The Glock 17, to my knowledge, never did.
    Business & Estate Attorney| Beretta, Glock & S&W Fan

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Moped View Post
    Oddly enough, after owning one for 6 years and carrying it about half that time, Iíve never had this issue. Same for a Glock 17, that Iíve had since 1990, even though they were claimed unsafe because of others shootings themselves in the butt, when holstering.
    And my doberman/pit bull mix never killed or maimed anyone while I had it but I doubt anyone would argue the potential isn't there at any given moment under the right circumstances. You are playing with fire and it may come back to bite you one of these days.

  9. #99
    I third the Ruger P89. Some go very reasonably on Gunbroker but a novice is unlikely to take advantage of that. Magazines are available, as are holsters.

    The Makarov has been raised as well. My first carry gun many years ago when they were $130. But a Mak costs what a new Sig 365 does now - and the days of the affordable foreign surplus carry gun seem to be over. US police trades seem to be best value going for surplus arms.

  10. #100
    F.A.R.T. Lab Tech RevolverRob's Avatar
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    May 2014
    Location
    Somewhere Salishious
    The challenge with the premise, "Sleeper Pistols" - is Youtube and easily accessed gun reviews make it easy to quickly and (somewhat accurately) sort the wheat from the chaff.

    So, underrated, under priced, readily available:

    The Kahr CW9.

    A gun that weighs in at a svelte 18oz, and shoots like a much bigger gun. Readily available for less than 4-bills, sometimes less than 3 bills, very accurate, nice trigger that has some added safety benefit of being a bit longer and heavier than a Glock, but is very smooth. The factory bar-dot sights are actually excellent (because square notch rear) allowing easy hits overall. Night sights are available and can be installed with hand tools.

    Only real downsides are: comes with one magazine, slide is stiff to rack for anyone with limited strength, and plenty of sharp edges. Two of these are rectified easily - mags are $35/each and five minutes with some emory paper will knock the edges down. The slide thing - well it is what it is.

    I know it's not cool kid cool. And it's only a 7+1 or 8+1 single stack. But frankly the CW9 is really an excellent gun overall and in my opinion is often overlooked for flashier things. It's extremely easy to carry and shoot well simultaneously.

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