Grant Cunningham - Defensive Revolver Fundamentals, 2nd Edition

[Moylan]

If the collective on this revolver sub-forum were to create an ideal book on running revolvers for defense or fighting, what would you include as topics to break down? What would your ideal table of contents include?

I am not part of the collective wisdom here, I'm just a dude who likes revolvers. But for my money a perfect revolver book would complement the one that feudist designed but be very differently focused. I'd love to see something that gives a comprehensive treatment of the various options for revolver use, with a thorough accounting of pros and cons, both from a concealed carry standpoint and a competitive one.

So, for example, I really like Cunningham's chapter on reloads, where he does a detailed account for the rationale behind his universal reload (most people I've seen online don't fully present the universal reload, including Chris Baker. No disrespect intended, but at about :52 he describes opening and turning the revolver very differently from the way Cunningham does in GDBook of the Revolver. Most people gloss over Cunningham's methodology of working the various cylinder releases, and for Cunningham the universality of the universal reload is a key factor in its favor. Of course, it wouldn't work with a Korth or a new Bodyguard style revolver, but whatever. And the turning of the hands gets a particular sort of treatment in Cunningham, too, that I haven't seen elsewhere. Sorry for the long parenthetical) and gives a great breakdown of it pictorially. But I'd love to see a chapter that presents that one, Stressfire, the Ohio/Taylor reload, and several others, and walks you through the thought processes behind each, presents the reloads fully faithfully to the way they're taught by their inventors (and maybe also presents whatever minor improvements people have made to them), gives real-world discussions of the shortcomings or failure points, and maybe gives some solid comparative times results. (Not just "this one will save you a quarter of a second" or whatever, but actual results.)

I'm also interested in certain details that tend to get dropped in these discussions. For example, Ayoob stresses the proper way to hold a speedloader, by having your fingers out over the edge so you can feel the cylinder ahead of the loader. I have a couple of speedloader pouches that sort of work for concealment, and neither allows a grip on the loader like Ayoob describes, unless I take the time to shift my grip after getting it out of the pouch. In a concealed carry situation, how would the best revolver trainers suggest handling loaders?

Need chapters on lefty, one-handed, malfunctions, and so on. Also, thorough chapters on gear, especially concealed gear. These will of course get outdated fast and I can see why an author wouldn't want to put much effort into that. Anyway, this would lead to a very long book, and it would no doubt be TMI for many people, but I love the nitpicky stuff and I've never seen a detailed discussion. I'm kind of looking for a 600-page version of The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver.

[feudist]

I am not part of the collective wisdom here, I'm just a dude who likes revolvers. But for my money a perfect revolver book would complement the one that feudist designed but be very differently focused. I'd love to see something that gives a comprehensive treatment of the various options for revolver use, with a thorough accounting of pros and cons, both from a concealed carry standpoint and a competitive one.

So, for example, I really like Cunningham's chapter on reloads, where he does a detailed account for the rationale behind his universal reload (most people I've seen online don't fully present the universal reload, including Chris Baker. No disrespect intended, but at about :52 he describes opening and turning the revolver very differently from the way Cunningham does in GDBook of the Revolver. Most people gloss over Cunningham's methodology of working the various cylinder releases, and for Cunningham the universality of the universal reload is a key factor in its favor. Of course, it wouldn't work with a Korth or a new Bodyguard style revolver, but whatever. And the turning of the hands gets a particular sort of treatment in Cunningham, too, that I haven't seen elsewhere. Sorry for the long parenthetical) and gives a great breakdown of it pictorially. But I'd love to see a chapter that presents that one, Stressfire, the Ohio/Taylor reload, and several others, and walks you through the thought processes behind each, presents the reloads fully faithfully to the way they're taught by their inventors (and maybe also presents whatever minor improvements people have made to them), gives real-world discussions of the shortcomings or failure points, and maybe gives some solid comparative times results. (Not just "this one will save you a quarter of a second" or whatever, but actual results.)

I'm also interested in certain details that tend to get dropped in these discussions. For example, Ayoob stresses the proper way to hold a speedloader, by having your fingers out over the edge so you can feel the cylinder ahead of the loader. I have a couple of speedloader pouches that sort of work for concealment, and neither allows a grip on the loader like Ayoob describes, unless I take the time to shift my grip after getting it out of the pouch. In a concealed carry situation, how would the best revolver trainers suggest handling loaders?

Need chapters on lefty, one-handed, malfunctions, and so on. Also, thorough chapters on gear, especially concealed gear. These will of course get outdated fast and I can see why an author wouldn't want to put much effort into that. Anyway, this would lead to a very long book, and it would no doubt be TMI for many people, but I love the nitpicky stuff and I've never seen a detailed discussion. I'm kind of looking for a 600-page version of The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver.

[03RN]

John taffin has the best 6gun books

[JonInWA]

Taffin's books are excellent. And readable.

I have the new Cunningham book on order, thanks to this thread.

Best, Jon

[Half Moon]

Not his books but nice archive Taffin's website of his articles:

http://sixguns.com/

[MDFA]

Just a few books from my collection to add to the resources already mentioned. With my S&W 15-2 my first duty revolver. Not that one however... My wife bought that one for me for our first Christmas together. Quite a bit of wisdom in those books. The brown one without a cover is John Bianchi's Blue Steel And Gunleather.

[Mas]

I'm also interested in certain details that tend to get dropped in these discussions. For example, Ayoob stresses the proper way to hold a speedloader, by having your fingers out over the edge so you can feel the cylinder ahead of the loader. I have a couple of speedloader pouches that sort of work for concealment, and neither allows a grip on the loader like Ayoob describes, unless I take the time to shift my grip after getting it out of the pouch. In a concealed carry situation, how would the best revolver trainers suggest handling loaders?.

Moylan, try the "Split Six" style, which has been produced by DeSantis and Safariland and probably others. It carries the loader with 3 round inside the belt and 3 outside to reduce bulge profile. It will be open on both sides and secured by a snapped flap. As your hand comes down, middle finger and thumb contact the loader with fingertips just ahead of bullet noses and your index finger pops the flap, allowing the loader to come out perfectly positioned into the hand. It will work with HKS or type 2 Safariland and similar sizes. If you are comfortable with HKS only, Ted Blocker's plastic-coated wire works surprisingly well. Either will put the loader into your hand with fingertips ahead of bullet noses.

[RevolverRob]

I am not part of the collective wisdom here, I'm just a dude who likes revolvers. But for my money a perfect revolver book would complement the one that feudist designed but be very differently focused. I'd love to see something that gives a comprehensive treatment of the various options for revolver use, with a thorough accounting of pros and cons, both from a concealed carry standpoint and a competitive one.

So, for example, I really like Cunningham's chapter on reloads, where he does a detailed account for the rationale behind his universal reload (most people I've seen online don't fully present the universal reload, including Chris Baker. No disrespect intended, but at about :52 he describes opening and turning the revolver very differently from the way Cunningham does in GDBook of the Revolver. Most people gloss over Cunningham's methodology of working the various cylinder releases, and for Cunningham the universality of the universal reload is a key factor in its favor. Of course, it wouldn't work with a Korth or a new Bodyguard style revolver, but whatever. And the turning of the hands gets a particular sort of treatment in Cunningham, too, that I haven't seen elsewhere. Sorry for the long parenthetical) and gives a great breakdown of it pictorially.

Cunningham's Universal Revolver Reload was first described by him on his Revolver Liberation Alliance Blog years ago. I remember distinctly his pictures of holding a soccer ball and turning it. I concur that these images and discussion were excellent. I mimicked this when I first started revolver shooting and this reload is the one I still use to this day, it is engrained in muscle memory after all this time. After several classes shooting revolvers without dropping a speed loader (knock on wood) and able to reliably use the reload while moving, behind concealment/cover, kneeling, running, etc. I see no reason to change. With practice it is very smooth. Some folks have mastered off hand reloads, I have not, nor found a compelling reason to do them. Every person is different, but I haven't found them any faster - for me - than the URR.

To be honest, there isn't another reload approach that works as well for a variety of revolvers of different sizes and makes. And in general it is a very smooth reload with practice and some training.

I have a couple of speedloader pouches that sort of work for concealment, and neither allows a grip on the loader like Ayoob describes, unless I take the time to shift my grip after getting it out of the pouch. In a concealed carry situation, how would the best revolver trainers suggest handling loaders?

Well, our new pouch doesn't allow for it either, but conceals sufficiently well that you can use a CompIII, Jetloader, or SL Variant with a long handle for concealed carry. Thus, solving a major issue with carrying a speed loader (IMO), having to use a smaller loader that is less efficient for reloads and easier to fumble. Sort of like carrying a G19 or G17 magazine for reloading your G26, it is easier.

Need chapters on lefty, one-handed, malfunctions, and so on.

Lefties get kind of screwed with revolvers. It seems weird at first, but I actually use a right handed universal revolver reload for left handed shooting. The advantage is you can shift the gun to the right hand by 'palming' the gun from the left into the right (support) hand. You unwind your left hand fingers from under your right hand support fingers and press the butt into the right palm, while tightening around the grip. Then run the reload and as you close the cylinder and would roll the gun into the right hand, you roll it back into the left hand. It takes some practice, but isn't complicated overall.

One-handed manipulations are best done with the waistband. I'll dig around, I did a video once demonstrating a (very slow) one-handed reloading technique. But it basically goes as follows:

For right handed shooters: you're going to open the gun by pressing the cylinder release and using your index finger to simultaneously push the cylinder open.

Then 'walk' your hand forward so your thumb and middle finger grasp the cylinder. I do this by rolling my thumb to the right side of the gun and inserting it into the cylinder window, first touching the recoil shield. Then I move my middle and ring fingers up to the front of the trigger guard and start to invert the muzzle. This allows my thumb to shift over to the cylinder and my middle finger rolls underneath to the 'bottom' of the cylinder to support it. Then I fully invert the gun and work the ejector rod with the index finger a couple of times as briskly as possible.

That done, I'm still holding the gun through the cylinder window, I invert muzzle down, rotate the and my arm 180-degrees so the butt is forward and cylinder is now lateral and shove the muzzle down into my pants, until the crane hits my belt/waistband (this part is important, this keeps the cylinder from trying to close on you as you reload). Grab a speed loader, speed strip, whatever and begin refilling the cylinder, once done. I loosely grasp the butt of the gun, placing my thumb on the open cylinder and conduct a 'calvary draw', as the gun swings up and rotates the thumb naturally pushes the cylinder closed and turns it as the gun rolls over into a shooting position.

To do this with any semblance of speed takes a lot of practice. And even with practice is it not quick.

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Malfunctions - To be honest, unless it is just a piece of brass turned sideways under the ejector rod, I've never had a revolver malfunction that could be fixed with any kind of immediate action drill.

If a rim slips under the extractor you're kind of fucked. I've had that happen more times than I can count with 'auto-ejecting' guns like Webleys. You usually have to stop, close and reopen the gun, or otherwise activate the extractor, you need to grab the extractor rod with one hand (usually shooting hand) and yank it all the way out, cramming your fingers in to hold the rod in the down position. Then invert the gun and get the brass moving out of the chamber, once the rim hits the ejector star you need to stab it sideways with a finger or grab it with the off hand and yank. It's not pretty on the brass and it's not easy to do quickly, but fortunately brass is softer than steel. The worst though is when the brass won't move and you have to pick at the rim or get a cleaning rod/pencil/whatever and jab it out.

Bullet jump ties up the action, but you can usually hammer the cylinder open by smacking it with your palm or against a hard surface and then eject the troublesome cartridges. High primers are a similar story, but sometimes you need an actual hammer to get the cylinder open if the primer ends up stuck behind a cut out in the recoil shield.

Everything else is really non-fixable mid-gunfight. A broken firing pin in a Colt or Smith, an unscrewed ejector rod in a Smith or ejector rod tip in a Colt. Cylinder yoke screw coming loose and losing the cylinder and detent when you open the gun to reload. None of these can really be fixed without taking time to diagnose the issue and/or without tools.

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Anyways, I think these are great discussions to be had. If merely because revolver manipulations are a bit more funky than a semi-auto. You have to move the gun around a lot, but they aren't really any more difficult, just different. Except the one handed reload, that shit is complicated.