Leupold DeltaPoint Micro On Gen 3 Glock G19

[JonInWA]

Yesterday I comparatively shot the G19 with the Leupold DeltaPoint Micro and my P320 RX X-Carry with its upgraded Variant 5 Romeo1. I had two friends (of greater shooting skills) with during the practice session, who graded and coached me with both platforms throughout.

The upshot is that I'm faster and more accurate with the G19/DPM, as demonstrated in multiple dot torture drills and IDPA classifiers that we shot with both weapons.

I freely admit that my comparative superiority with the G19/DPM might have to do with my significant use and dryfire with it recently; although I've recently used and dryfired the P320, I've really been concentrating on the G19/DPM lately.

The "aim small, hit small" concept really seems to play out will with the DPM and its small screen. I found that I could naturally draw, index and that the front sight/dot were there; with the P320/Romeo1 it was harder to initially find the dot, and I seemed to be more "painting" the target with it as opposed to the dot naturally being "there." For me, the small "soda straw" screen of the DPM is not an operational inhibitor.

I'm not displeased with the P320/Romeo1, it's just that for me (with my limited skill set, such as it is, and at this point in my shooting) the G19/DPM is demonstratively a better combination.

Best, Jon

[JCN]

@JonInWA

What you’re describing is the different index between Glocks and Sigs.

When you’ve been practicing with the Glock index.

If you put a Romeo 1 on a Glock 19, the results would likely be very different.

It’s important not to conflate gun training improvements with optic benefits.

[JonInWA]

@JonInWA

What you’re describing is the different index between Glocks and Sigs.

When you’ve been practicing with the Glock index.

If you put a Romeo 1 on a Glock 19, the results would likely be very different.

It’s important not to conflate gun training improvements with optic benefits.

I think you're making an off the cuff observation that provides a great catch phrase, but isn't necessarily an accurate capture of my reality.

I shot the P320 RX X-Carry very seriously from late 2019 through 2021, including in 2 Tier IV IDPA matches. I may not be a world class shooter with it, but I think I've got a pretty good feel, familiarization and muscle memory built up on the gun and the sight system. When I say that I shoot better with the G19 with the DPM, part of that may be better indexing with the G19, but I think that I can isolate the platform and the sight in my overall assessment. My conclusion at this point is the reverse of what you're suggesting-that if I placed a DPM on a P320, I would likely shoot better with it due to the DPM.

A component of that may well be my index with a Glock-specifically in this case, a Gen 3 Glock G19 with a Hogue HandAll Beavertail grip sleeve, a "dot" connector and a OEM product-improved triggerbar. But an important sight component by my experience and assessment is the hybrid system that the DPM provides; i.e., using the iron front sight in combination with the dot, and the relatively small viewing screen, which to me provides a "see small, hit small" sight variant on the "aim small, hit small" philosophy. I'll continue to critically assess and observe how well I do, particularly when shooting in scenarios with rapid transitions, both horizontal and vertical and involving physical movement and repositioning.

Again, I'm not trying to assert that the DPM is necessarily the greatest thing in RDS. But at this point, if I had a full-size RDS on a G19 and shot that concurrently with a G19 with the DPM, my assessment is that I would shoot better with the DPM. That may be due to my index and skills as they are at this point in time (and I accept that it may be a bit of a condemnation of my skill level), but at this point I'm predisposed to believe that I would do better with a DPM than a "regular" RDS based on my results to date.

Best, Jon

[JCN]

But at this point, if I had a full-size RDS on a G19 and shot that concurrently with a G19 with the DPM, my assessment is that I would shoot better with the DPM. That may be due to my index and skills as they are at this point in time (and I accept that it may be a bit of a condemnation of my skill level), but at this point I'm predisposed to believe that I would do better with a DPM than a "regular" RDS based on my results to date.

Best, Jon

That’s a very bold hypothesis and I think demands the actual experiment to test it.

I would bet a PF dollar that you’re wrong.

“Aim small, miss small” is not a valid hypothesis with a dot where the dot MOA is similar between optics.

You are aiming with the dot, not with the window.




If you are not able to get the dot in the window on index with a traditional optic and you are with a DPM…

It’s because you’re basically using irons to find your dot.

If you’re struggling with index, you might actually really benefit from something like the ACSS aiming ring.






Don’t let defensiveness lead you down a hypothesis trail that will just hurt you as a shooter and hurt your credibility.




If you actually shoot better with a DPM on a 19 than an SRO or ACSS on a 19, it’s not because “aim small, miss small” because the shooting part is done with the same MOA dot on all the optics and that’s where you’re aiming at.

If you need help indexing and basically using the tube to help you find your dot, that’s a completely separate thing.

But it has nothing to do with aiming.




I say this both from my own experience and from training my wife.






When you get to these speeds of finding the dot on draw and recoil, you won’t be so keen on the DPM.

[JCN]

@JonInWA

From an equipment standpoint, the actual reduced variable control to a DPM is a Glock 19 slide with a very low profile, large window dot so an iron index will work.

A tall body optic will change the index a little.

I would like to help this experiment.

If you’d be willing, I will ship you a Glock 19 slide with an RMSx optic on it so you can drill back to back and test our hypotheses.

Let’s put it to the test. What Gen 19 slide would you like? I’ll pay for shipping both ways.

[JonInWA]

@JonInWA

From an equipment standpoint, the actual reduced variable control to a DPM is a Glock 19 slide with a very low profile, large window dot so an iron index will work.

A tall body optic will change the index a little.

I would like to help this experiment.

If you’d be willing, I will ship you a Glock 19 slide with an RMSx optic on it so you can drill back to back and test our hypotheses.

Let’s put it to the test. What Gen 19 slide would you like? I’ll pay for shipping both ways.

That sounds great, I'll send a PM. The nice thing about this thread, and p-f in general, is that through our shared experiences we can pick out nuggets of information that potentially are applicable (or not)to us both individually and collectively.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

JCN, PM sent.

Best, Jon