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Thread: Book: On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  1. #161
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    I read most of the article. Until the Sheepdog stuff was related to wolves of color. I did Bullefproof Mind in 2013-2014, and found a lot of useful information. Admittedly, I use some of it in my training of schools and churches for active shooter. One of my clients uses my training for insurance requirements... I found no racist remarks...maybe I missed them. There was good information to be had, and I ran with it.

    After reviews of people I respect, I am not much of a fan of the person...but solid ideas are solid ideas...

    There seems to be much fluff....

    pat
    Regarding soldiers and war, I think diaries are a better source for what soldiers did or did not do, than are Grossman or Marshall.
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  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Regarding soldiers and war, I think diaries are a better source for what soldiers did or did not do, than are Grossman or Marshall.
    You are probably right...

    Find a market, sell your product, right?

    pat

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    I read most of the article. Until the Sheepdog stuff was related to wolves of color. I did Bullefproof Mind in 2013-2014, and found a lot of useful information. Admittedly, I use some of it in my training of schools and churches for active shooter. One of my clients uses my training for insurance requirements... I found no racist remarks...maybe I missed them. There was good information to be had, and I ran with it.
    I don't know that the author is saying that Grossman is explicitly racist; he is contending that criminals are "wolves" or "super-predators" has a history of being aligned with racist views or biases that are not helpful in community policing. At least, that's how I read it.
    "It was the fuck aroundest of times, it was the find outest of times."- 45dotACP

  4. #164
    Tactical Nobody Guerrero's Avatar
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    Greg Ellifritz linked to this lengthy and interesting blog post looking at Grossman's stuff:

    https://www.hosannafukuzawa.com/on-g...back-20-years/
    ďBad decisions are not made through a lack of skill or innate judgement: they are made because of an inability to handle pressure at the pivotal moment.Ē
    -James Kerr, from his book Legacy

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    I would certainly disagree. Learning things like sight alignment, when to press the trigger, and so on are certainly transferable across mediums in my experience. I've seen too many folks who have never shot a gun before that could and would do pretty good on their first experience and credited it to development of similar skills in other environments.
    My kid has credited introducing him to video games and associated multi-tasking skills as helpful during his time flying for the Army. I did mostly keep the games we purchased in the realm of city building or quest type games vs. shoot'm-ups. He played the typical shooter games with his friends. I don't think gaming made him particularly sociopathic as he's retired and hung up his monocle and gone from raining fire down 18lbs or 30mm at a time to neo-natal critical care nursing.
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  6. #166
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Weird usually Caliber Press gets all the blame for the Warrior Cop. <<shrugs>>

    One thing I did pick up from Grossman is donít forget to say baaaaaa if you forget to carry. I get a laugh out of it if I do. Pretty infrequent but it happens. If Iím close to home I baaa and turn around to get the piece.
    A smug, middle class member of the Cult of Book Ownership

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    Weird usually Caliber Press gets all the blame for the Warrior Cop. <<shrugs>>

    One thing I did pick up from Grossman is donít forget to say baaaaaa if you forget to carry. I get a laugh out of it if I do. Pretty infrequent but it happens. If Iím close to home I baaa and turn around to get the piece.
    Technology is a fine thing. Every time I'm leaving the house and set the alarm it reminds me. "Armed. Away." Yup!
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    Weird usually Caliber Press gets all the blame for the Warrior Cop. <<shrugs>>

    One thing I did pick up from Grossman is donít forget to say baaaaaa if you forget to carry. I get a laugh out of it if I do. Pretty infrequent but it happens. If Iím close to home I baaa and turn around to get the piece.
    I attended a Grossman seminar some years ago. It was a pretty decent motivational class. I didn't catch anything objectionable or inaccurate as I recall, but time has moved on. I will note that I was concerned the warrior thing would bite us in the handcuff case sooner or later. I understand the concept from both our side and the Washington Post's side.

    To preface this, I am not critical of the majority of officers who responded to Uvalde from multiple agencies with no real command structure or operational awareness. That said, whenever I hear this concern about "warrior cops", my reaction is that the police response to Uvalde was a Guardian response and certainly no that of Warriors.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by jnc36rcpd View Post
    I attended a Grossman seminar some years ago. It was a pretty decent motivational class. I didn't catch anything objectionable or inaccurate as I recall, but time has moved on. I will note that I was concerned the warrior thing would bite us in the handcuff case sooner or later. I understand the concept from both our side and the Washington Post's side.

    To preface this, I am not critical of the majority of officers who responded to Uvalde from multiple agencies with no real command structure or operational awareness. That said, whenever I hear this concern about "warrior cops", my reaction is that the police response to Uvalde was a Guardian response and certainly no that of Warriors.
    It's a tool bag. You reach into it and pull out Coach, Mediator, Technologist, Customer Service Rep, Athlete, Warrior -as needed. The problem comes when you don't train your other tools and get stuck or try to hit the Easy Button. The Warrior thing is easy and gets reinforcement all the time.
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  10. #170
    Site Supporter feudist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Regarding soldiers and war, I think diaries are a better source for what soldiers did or did not do, than are Grossman or Marshall.
    Agreed. See The Deadly Brotherhood, When the Odds Were Even, If You Survive and a host of others.
    Beyond Marshall's flat out lying, there are the routinely documented friendly fire incidents where jumpy sentries light up anything moving. There were issues with new recruits, trained by safety nazis in the "One shot, one kill, don't waste those precious .30 caliber lifesavers the supply sergeant had you sign for" who had to be taught to use suppressive fire, but that was a range culture/ NCO problem, not a fundamental of human nature.

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