Went Girsan instead of Beretta

[MichaelOrick]

Not to be 'That Guy' - well, one of my E5's gave me a 'That Guy' tab morale patch as a gag gift when I left my position as a Platoon Sergeant last year, so maybe I am 'That Guy'

Two things:

-The M92 is a Yugoslavian short AK. There is no Beretta M92. It's a Beretta 92 (or variant thereof) or a Beretta M9 (or variant thereof). Distinctions like this matter in technical discussions.

- Girsan has met *Turkish* military requirements.

I can live with that.

I served with a senior NCO who worked the USAF trials in the 70s, as well as the JSSAP in the 80s. They even looked at converting the M15 revolvers to 9mm...

I was there for the Chair Forces Force's transition from M15/M1911A1 to M9/M11.

I worked with Turkish troops for 3 years.

The Girsan and MEKE 92s passed tests as tough as the M9 and M11 did.

The Sarsilmaz and Caniks replacing them passed tests tougher than the M17/18 did.

If their pistols are as good as their drones, I can live with that too.

[JRB]

I can live with that.

I served with a senior NCO who worked the USAF trials in the 70s, as well as the JSSAP in the 80s. They even looked at converting the M15 revolvers to 9mm...

I was there for the Chair Forces Force's transition from M15/M1911A1 to M9/M11.

I worked with Turkish troops for 3 years.

The Girsan and MEKE 92s passed tests as tough as the M9 and M11 did.

The Sarsilmaz and Caniks replacing them passed tests tougher than the M17/18 did.

If their pistols are as good as their drones, I can live with that too.

Got any links to the reports or details you can share on those tests? I'd be very interested in reading those. Based on what I've seen from Turkish made clones of other weapons like HK roller locked guns and Benelli shotguns, I'd be surprised if their pistol copies were substantially better.
Their own bespoke designs, especially the Canik, seem to be much better.

[MichaelOrick]

Got any links to the reports or details you can share on those tests? I'd be very interested in reading those. Based on what I've seen from Turkish made clones of other weapons like HK roller locked guns and Benelli shotguns, I'd be surprised if their pistol copies were substantially better.
Their own bespoke designs, especially the Canik, seem to be much better.

I did not say they were better. I said the tests were as tough/tougher.

I remember a 30K or more endurance test as opposed to the 5-12K in M9/M11/M17/18 for example.

I trust them to be good enough for me. YMMV.

Might find something under Original Indigenous Project.

[HCountyGuy]

...
The Girsan and MEKE 92s passed tests as tough as the M9 and M11 did.

The Sarsilmaz and Caniks replacing them passed tests tougher than the M17/18 did.

...

Yeah, I'd certainly like to see some data for tests regarding these claims, because until proven otherwise I'm calling straight BS.

I can distinctly remember selling some Girsans to customers who wanted a Beretta without paying Beretta money. Mags were giving issues and at least one of their more fancy looking ones (all I remember was it was blue grips that had a see-through cutout) had extractor issues out of the gate.

As for Sarsilmaz being anything of quality? Once again, show me the data because those things are cheap POSes from my experiences with them as well as customers who bought them and would almost immediately (within 2-3 weeks) come back trying to sell them back.

Everyone wants something to do product "X"'s job at a cheaper price, but 99/100 you're going to find out with a quickness why the knock-off is so much cheaper.

[MichaelOrick]

Do what makes you happy; I am.

Some of you need a $2,000 1911 to feel secure; I'm fine with a $200 Maverick shotgun.

It's good enough for me; if it's not good enough for you, I can live with that too.

[Moshjath]

Personally I’d rather buy a product supporting fellow Americans in Tennessee than support Erdogan’s defense industries even if there is a premium.

[LockedBreech]

Do what makes you happy; I am.

Some of you need a $2,000 1911 to feel secure; I'm fine with a $200 Maverick shotgun.

It's good enough for me; if it's not good enough for you, I can live with that too.

I think it's okay to have a conversation about the Turkish firearms industry when talking about a Turkish pistol without anybody being insecure. It's great that it works for you and I've heard great things about the Regards, I bet it's going to be an awesome gun.

Critical takes aren't bad things though. Sorta like the Springfield XDs. They're pretty decent guns for $300, but the small parts breakages and small grip safety are valid criticisms. Without those criticisms, people who love the platform might not know to grab a Powder River Precision striker retainer pin, for instance.

I also confess, I'd like to see the testing just because I'm a nerd for that kinda thing...

[HCountyGuy]

By all means, you do you at the end of the day. However, making pretty bold assertions that a cheap Turkish knock-off is anywhere close to as good as the product it’s copying without providing some objective data to back up the claim is going to get called out here of all places.

We’ve seen maligned guns have a revival, see the PX4. Hell, even Taurus seems to be getting their act together. But don’t expect us to just take your word that some such guns are “jUsT aS gOoD” as those with significant track records without some manner of proof.

[HCM]

By all means, you do you at the end of the day. However, making pretty bold assertions that a cheap Turkish knock-off is anywhere close to as good as the product it’s copying without providing some objective data to back up the claim is going to get called out here of all places.

We’ve seen maligned guns have a revival, see the PX4. Hell, even Taurus seems to be getting their act together. But don’t expect us to just take your word that some such guns are “jUsT aS gOoD” as those with significant track records without some manner of proof.

“Maligned” implies the issues reported with early PX4s were not real. However, I am aware that the early PX4s, particularly those issued to CBSA (Canada’s version of CBP) were real. They were shit shows. I’m glad Beretta fixed what ever was wrong with the early PX4s but it’s revival was due to Beretta making inline changes to the guns.

Beretta is not the first (and won’t be the last) gun company to quietly fix issues with inline changes (looking at you SIG) without publicly acknowledging the issue or the fix.

I do agree that “just as good as” claims require data and are also dependent on your purpose.

That said Turkish guns vary in quality. Look at the various Turkish Benelli M4 shotgun clones, some of which are exceptional values and some of which are crap. They are all Turkish clones of the same gun but the quality varies from one maker to another.,

The Girsan P35 clones have been decent and having built 100k or more licensed B92 clones for the Turkish Govt probably didn’t hurt.

I seem to recall there was an old thread here on PF by a Canadian USPSA shooter who put a fair number of rounds rounds through a Gerson Beretta 92 clone without issue. Not sure if they were available here in the US at the time.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....retta-92-Clone

Another generally positive thread here:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Girsan-Regard

[HCM]

Personally I’d rather buy a product supporting fellow Americans in Tennessee than support Erdogan’s defense industries even if there is a premium.

Probably the best argument in the thread.

Though I never saw a problematic 92 series pistol until the move to TN.