Dogs killing people

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Respectfully, if you're continuing to post anecdotes and appeals to emotion, and reference their own site for it's veracity -Might as well reference Everytown for gun safety's website for honest data on so-called 'gun violence'- then clearly we are talking past each other.
There's tons of doctors that are vehemently anti-gun, and carry on with specifics on terrible gunshot wounds suffered by kids and innocent folks, and how terrible those so-called 'high powered' AR15's are and how nobody should have one, etc. That's not a strike against their knowledge and skill as a physician, it's a natural human response to someone who's never seen or understood the net positive of an armed populace. They blame guns and the companies that make them instead of the people that store them negligently around kids or strangers, leave them in their car to be stolen, or pick them up with evil in their hearts.
It's very much a 'can't see the forest through the trees' scenario.

This really isn't all that different, especially once we accept that if pit bulls were all summarily and ex-judicially executed overnight, the career criminal shitbird assholes that like tough aggressive evil dogs will start breeding and abusing another breed to make their tough evil aggressive dogs.

What I will not do is play tit-for-tat statistical cherrypicking & mud-flinging in a pointless attempt to change your mind. Frankly, I doubt there's anything I could conjure up from any source that you would accept as compelling, accurate, or relevant. So I'm not going to waste any more time trying to change your mind, which is clearly closed and solidly decided on a stance here.

I'll bow out of this thread now.

Im always open to facts. For the second time, you are free to trot them out.

[JRB]

Well I guess let's just do this.

A gun is an inanimate object without drive or instinct. On the other hand, pits have been careful bred to have a particular drive and instinct. A gun isn’t capable of acting without human action; dogs are.

You also appear to assume that all or a majority of significant pit bull attacks are precipitated by owners who abuse the dog or mistreat it. That is a big assumption that I don’t buy.

Respectfully, I have already addressed the paradox of a dog's free will and agency vs a dog's owners 100% responsibility for the dog's actions as dogs are considered property. I apologize if those posts weren't worth your notice or consideration.

In summary, I don't have any respect or sympathy for someone who's negligent about containing/controlling/maintaining accountability for their animal. It's the human's fault. Full Stop. Doesn't matter if it's a Pit bull or a Labradoodle or a Gaboon Viper.
Same thing goes for someone who dismissively says 'oh it's unloaded' or 'it's on safe' about storing a gun negligently around kids and thereby empowers a predictable tragedy with their reckless negligence. They know what a gun is and what's it capable of. Pit bull owners should know what it is and what it's capable of. Dog owners should know what it is and what it's capable of. Swimming pool owners should know what it is and what it's capable of. The list goes on. People who'll obsessively fence off a swimming pool but not keenly monitor their young child around ANY dog are obtuse hypocrites by my measure. I don't care what breed of dog it is or how nice that dog has been in the past.

If you're interested in addressing any other points I've already brought up in this thread about how shitheads will abuse any animal to get the aggressive evil beast they want, and how that is not bound to a breed or definition, by all means please address that point by point because I respect your take on pretty much everything.

Im always open to facts. For the second time, you are free to trot them out.

No, you are not. Your refusal to address any of the counterpoints or reasoning I've already brought into this conversation proves you aren't open to any other 'Facts'.
Address the counterpoints I've already discussed re:shitheads abusing dogs to make evil dogs, prejudice towards all animals that have a passing physical resemblance to others, etc. Or just keep carrying your 1911 and hating all dogs that can pass as pitbulls.

I'm explicitly not interested in wasting time making a dog-breed version of an Everytown stats vs NRA stats sort of argument here. I don't have the time and it's not worthy of P-F.

[UNK]

Well I guess let's just do this.



Respectfully, I have already addressed the paradox of a dog's free will and agency vs a dog's owners 100% responsibility for the dog's actions as dogs are considered property. I apologize if those posts weren't worth your notice or consideration.

In summary, I don't have any respect or sympathy for someone who's negligent about containing/controlling/maintaining accountability for their animal. It's the human's fault. Full Stop. Doesn't matter if it's a Pit bull or a Labradoodle or a Gaboon Viper.
Same thing goes for someone who dismissively says 'oh it's unloaded' or 'it's on safe' about storing a gun negligently around kids and thereby empowers a predictable tragedy with their reckless negligence. They know what a gun is and what's it capable of. Pit bull owners should know what it is and what it's capable of. Dog owners should know what it is and what it's capable of. Swimming pool owners should know what it is and what it's capable of. The list goes on. People who'll obsessively fence off a swimming pool but not keenly monitor their young child around ANY dog are obtuse hypocrites by my measure. I don't care what breed of dog it is or how nice that dog has been in the past.

If you're interested in addressing any other points I've already brought up in this thread about how shitheads will abuse any animal to get the aggressive evil beast they want, and how that is not bound to a breed or definition, by all means please address that point by point because I respect your take on pretty much everything.



No, you are not. Your refusal to address any of the counterpoints or reasoning I've already brought into this conversation proves you aren't open to any other 'Facts'.
Address the counterpoints I've already discussed re:shitheads abusing dogs to make evil dogs, prejudice towards all animals that have a passing physical resemblance to others, etc. Or just keep carrying your 1911 and hating all dogs that can pass as pitbulls.

I'm explicitly not interested in wasting time making a dog-breed version of an Everytown stats vs NRA stats sort of argument here. I don't have the time and it's not worthy of P-F.

If you go back and read my ALL of my post you will see Ive posted among other things
1) I think owners are 100% responsible
2) Im sure there are some great pit bulls in peoples homes
3) Theres no way people can say people can interpret what Ive said as all pit bulls are bad that would be a ludicrous position. (On my part)

[Jim Watson]

Earlier this year, a stroller near here was badly mauled by a "pack" (later said to be 7) of "mixed breed" dogs.

A county worker sent out to investigate was killed by those dogs. The next wave of investigation was by the sheriffs department which reported that many of the dogs were "euthanized" on the spot when they attacked deputies.

The owner who is locally known for raising mean dogs for the sort of people who like to have mean dogs was charged with manslaughter.

Sad to say I just saw that the original victim died of her bites after ten weeks in hospital!
I was horrified, I thought that surely if you could last that long that you would be healing.

So now two counts of manslaughter.

No breed indictment, clearly a human at fault for intentionally producing vicious dogs.

[Sensei]

Sad to say I just saw that the original victim died of her bites after ten weeks in hospital!
I was horrified, I thought that surely if you could last that long that you would be healing.

The American critical care medical community is very good at slowing the dying process - so slow that the American public has become bad at recognizing that dying is happening rather than healing…

[41magfan]

The American critical care medical community is very good at slowing the dying process - so slow that the American public has become bad at recognizing that dying is happening rather than healing…

I guess that's kinda like hanging out in a bar; the longer you stay - the bigger the tab.

[Clusterfrack]

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
--Gen. "Mad Dog" James Mattis

That's my approach with any dog large enough to cause serious injury, but especially certain breeds. I've had to fight dogs numerous times, and certain breeds are more dangerous than others--I think everyone here knows that. It would be silly to claim that pit bull type dogs are harmless, but equally silly to claim that they are any more dangerous than GSDs, Rotts, large mutts, etc. As @41magfan posted, aggressive, strong-willed breeds are the makings of a disaster without training. But, the scariest dog encounter I've had was with a pack of medium/large street dogs.

...Most of the dog owners I encounter (99+%) have no real control over their dog(s) off-lead because the dog is essentially untrained and undisciplined. When you couple that passive control with an aggressive, strong-willed breed, you have the makings of a disaster when you add a dose of unpredictable stimulus into the mix.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "My dog's never behaved like that before."

[IDontDoQuests]

The problem with shitbulls, it's that it's mostly 90lb gangbangers with pants on their ankles, or fat middle aged Karens who are in charge of controlling said dogs from mauling your children or wife as they play in the park. Hell, I saw a video of a huge black guy who couldn't pull his own pitbull off another person's small dog. The Pitbull tore the small dog to pieces until the police came and had to shoot it... and they had to shoot it MULTIPLE TIMES, as the pitbull didn't stop attacking after the first bang (imagine if that'd had been your kid?). So even the average man can't do much to stop a pitbull from attacking unless he's willing to put his own dog down in the moment (and most dog lovers seem to value their dogs life over yours). Another big problem is that everyone talks about how it has nothing to do with the breed, but... "it's how they're raised" but many pitbulls who turn on their owners are dogs raised in a nice suburban middle class home where it's clear that the people love their dog and treat it well. A disingenuous response to this is that the dogs in question aren't "real pit bulls" because they have 9% some other dog breed in them. Despite the fact that from a practical purpose, these dogs all have certain features and genetic similarities that allows us to determine that they're a specific group of attackers. No matter what political party, philosophy, train of thought, etc you belong to, it seems no one has the balls to admit and understand how genetics plays a clear role in reality. And lastly, even if we want to pretend biology doesn't exist, there's plenty of human psychos who despite growing up in a nice childhood end up killing other human beings and no one saw it coming, so the same applies to animals which give even less cues than a human being. You're trusting that this 35 to 100lb creature with teeth and the capacity to kill and maim NEVER goes haywire.

[UNK]

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
--Gen. "Mad Dog" James Mattis

That's my approach with any dog large enough to cause serious injury, but especially certain breeds. I've had to fight dogs numerous times, and certain breeds are more dangerous than others--I think everyone here knows that. It would be silly to claim that pit bull type dogs are harmless, but equally silly to claim that they are any more dangerous than GSDs, Rotts, large mutts, etc. As @41magfan posted, aggressive, strong-willed breeds are the makings of a disaster without training. But, the scariest dog encounter I've had was with a pack of medium/large street dogs.

Well put. My opinion is all dogs need to be on leash no matter how well trained. I worked extensively with my dog off leash but I didnt trust her, or any dog for that matter off leash.
I know a guy who trains people and their dogs for obedience. He was supremely confident in his dogs off leash, until one of them ran out into the road directly into the path of an oncoming car.
Dogs are going to dog things.

[Sensei]

Well put. My opinion is all dogs need to be on leash no matter how well trained. I worked extensively with my dog off leash but I didnt trust her, or any dog for that matter off leash.
I know a guy who trains people and their dogs for obedience. He was supremely confident in his dogs off leash, until one of them ran out into the road directly into the path of an oncoming car.
Dogs are going to dog things.

All the fuss over on-leash or off-leash is a distraction. Plenty of attacks occur inside the home or when the dog escapes the fence because the yard guy left the gate unlatched.

The issue is that pits were bred with a powerful prey drive and have the physical capability to inflict disproportionate damage compared to most similar sized dogs. It is unrealistic that any dog owner keeps the dog on a leash 100% of the time or never has the dog escape from its enclosure.

I’m not saying that I’d euthanize all pits. I’m just saying that it is perfectly reasonable for people to want to avoid pit bull owners. That means it’s fine to refuse to rent to them, not let your kids play near them, and just basically treat them like people who collect exotic, venomous snakes.