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Thread: Dogs killing people

  1. #91
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    2 questions:
    1) Is there a debate as to whether pit bulls are even in the top five most popular breeds in America with regards to total numbers of dogs in America?

    2) Is there a debate as to whether pit bulls cause more deaths and serious injuries in America in terms of raw numbers of attacks than any other breed?

    If there is no debate on those numbers, then there can only be 2 possibilities:
    1) Pitt bulls cause disproportionate numbers of deaths and serious injuries.
    2) Pit bulls disproportionately attract shithead owners who cause their dogs to be dangerous.

    Personally, I donít think the 2 options are mutually exclusive, so I avoid pit bulls and people who own them like the plague.
    One person who I don't know but have reliable information about this incident. The owner was attacked by her own Pit and lost her leg below the knee. That's some weird shit right there. Don't know if the dog was a rescue.

    I might add that the only dog that ever bit me was a St. Bernard while I was shopping in a country store. That hurt like hell and the bruises lasted for a month. Fortunately just some muscle and tissue damage. Could have been a lot worse.
    Last edited by Borderland; 08-19-2022 at 04:01 PM.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    No doubt about that. I think you might be aware I recently had to put down a protection trained Mal because of age. Theres several pics of her with my kids in the Dogs thread. I dont have a problem with dogs that bite when they are supposed to.
    A dog who is only 6.5 % of the population and is the main killer of people in the US makes me take notice. Particularly when those dogs are family dogs and have been for years and then they kill somebody in the family.
    And then if you look at the actual damage from non fatal dog bites and the amount of surgery required to address that damage, again pit bulls are at the top of that list too.
    I dont gaf who own what dogs I thought the statistics were pretty damning and personally I dont like or trust them.
    I got bit by a chocolate lab but have never had anything but great experience with Pitts. Even random pitts in parks and vets offices. A guy I used to do business with adopted a pitt and kept it at his work. Didn't matter who you were, all that dog wanted was belly rubs. The lab on the other hand chewed up my hand pretty good.
    Several pitts in my upper middle class neighborhood. None bat an eye when they see me walk my dog. One just completely ignores the world around it. Another likes to lay down and watch other dogs walk by even though the owner is quite annoyed by it. A third is kinda happy go lucky goofy. Distracted by butterflies. None give two shits about other dogs. Meanwhile a Husky and a Labradoodle want to turn my dog into a chew toy.

    Some people expect dogs to be like a computer. Just program XYZ and that animal will only do XYZ. No amount of training is going to turn a living being into a computer

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  3. #93
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    There are a lot of breeds, imho, that are wired kind of tight and high strung...but a lot comes down to how the dogs are raised and socialized.

    There are definitely dogs I give a wide berth based upon the cues they are giving off...but I feel comfortable with most any breed unless I happen upon a bad specimen.

    I know we talked about the dog that jumped mine a couple of weeks back, and I was able to kick and pummel it back from mine without anything bad coming to pass. A week or so later when I encountered the dog while on my own passing the neighbor's home, I petted and socialized with the dog with no ill feelings on either side.

    A lot of breeds get a bad rap...but it's their owners and breeders that deserve to be maligned.
    Way way back in time living TX long before TX had any carry option we were out for a walk with the first born in a stroller when from way up the block comes a pit hurtling towards us at crazy speed. Got between mom and kiddo and drew my folder and got down low braced for the impact.

    Said pit flies up then throws itself onto its back at my feet with tail a wagging and cheeks a grinnin'. I gave him so much belly rubbing.
    "Iíve come to realize manual transmission cars and 1911s have something in commonóa person who steals one probably wonít know how to use it." - Hideeho

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    Iíve known truly sweet pits that I would trust with my life, but Iíve also had some really sketchy interactions with the breed - in a much higher proportion than the numbers would suggest. I personally think most aggressive pits are made, not born.

    In response to your comment, Iíve never been bit or chased by a bottle of tequila. If I put it down, I can turn my back on it. I know what you are trying to say, but that may not be the best comparison.
    best comparison.
    Try this one Drunk driving accounts for over 10,000 deaths a year guess they did not put down the bottle, I don't turn my back on people drinking.
    Remember What the Doormouse Said = Feed your head

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Mitchum View Post
    To each his own, I like serious dogs, mine are well trained, and my lifestyle can handle them.
    Big fenced in yard and live in a rural area, I have zero problems controlling my dogs.
    I stopped taking them out in public because of A holes running up and saying wow what kind of dog is that and trying to pet them.

    They are not for everyone and should not be owned by most people, they have made it hard to go on vacation sometimes.
    I don't inflict my choice on others and have no use for A holes who get a serious dog and have no clue on what to do.
    If I had the money back, I spent on top Quilty food obedience and bite work I would have a lot of money to buy some toys!

    Once we got him to stop trying to eat the cat, he is a 178-pound Teddy Bear with us but not so good with strangers.
    He will never be put in a bad situation to get into trouble, I have made arrangements if something happens to me a friend will take him and any cat or dog we own.


    Presas are fantastic dogs but I already fear for them since their reconstruction in the 70s. Certain types of people are getting their hands on them probably because of their looks and protective nature. I see people posting Presa pups for sale that probably donít meet the breed standard by a wide margin. Same thing is happening to the Cane Corso.

    We looked into Presas for our next dog but I know they can be a little gamey and decided against it. Great dogs though. Surprised people approach you to pet them, my friend has one and people will cross the street before going near him. Our problem is our CO just looks like a big fluffy dog. The west is conditioned to find big fluffy dogs approachable.


    Quote Originally Posted by BWT View Post
    I had less strong feelings before I had small children.

    Having small children now and knowing how quickly theyíd be absolutely overpowered by a dog evokes strong emotions.

    I have seen virtue signaling folks who are trying to do a good thing and rescue dogs. My Dad rescued a pit bull. But to be honest, I saw two pit bulls running loose a few weeks ago in my neighborhood. And I think I have a 16 month old walking around in my back yard and it fills my heart with dread because my family plays in the yard.

    I just look at it like would you leave a loaded firearm out laying in the front yard? No? Okay, well that loaded firearm isnít sentient and doesnít walk around and go exploring or have a bite drive or a chase drive or anything else like that.

    I get really frustrated by people that donít keep their dogs on leashes. Again, itís not an inanimate object that could be lethal. Itís a animal with capabilities and relying on someone to obedience train/raise their dogs is just more margin than I personally have with a dog than I do when I look at my kids.

    I know several people attacked and bitten by dogs. Iíve been chased but wasnít caught by a family members German Shepherd when I was a small child. Thankfully we got on top of the car before it could get to us.

    It just frustrates the crap out of me when people obliviously and uselessly call to their 70-90 lb dog thatís hopping all over us or my kids.

    I guess this is mostly venting, but I owned dogs for years, I used to walk dogs as a part time job in high school, etc. I like dogs, but I am just callous to explanations about dogs when they run loose in the neighborhood. Also, just keep control of your animal. LE/Mil keeps their K9ís on leashes and those dogs are worth tens of thousands and have years of training and daily reinforcement of that training. Iím just exasperated with peopleís excuses and ideology.

    Alright, Iím done.
    I must confess I see almost no benefit to adopting a dog. Iíve shared my view with certain types and been skewered for it. Dogs are a selectively bred species and you VERY much get what you pay for.


    Try finding a truly well bred working line GSD. Google it and youíll see tons of kennels. Go over to the working dogs forum or the GSD forum and watch as they dissect the vast majority of those kennels as peddlers producing junk.


    Even worse for gamedogs now. To get a true APBT that is responsibly bred with an accurate pedigree you have to go to ADBA shows and meet people in person. Ask for a dog too soon from them and theyíll tell you to get lost.

    IMHO if you want a good dog you have to be patient and cough up the money when the time comes. Thatís just step number one, then comes extensive training and socialization that never stops.

    Your comment about dogs running loose and your kids playing in the backyard is one of the reasons I have the dog I do. My girls brother (same litter) killed a loose Pitbull that hoped their fence (allegedly anyways). We have to have contingencies for others irresponsibility and recklessness. Someoneís Pitbull hops my fence and itís probably not getting back out.
    Last edited by Mercworx; 08-19-2022 at 05:33 PM.
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  6. #96
    Meat Popsicle
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    First off taking my post out of context is disingenuous. Heres the snippet of the post I was responding to and my reply.
    Very fair point, and my intent was not to play that sort of dodgeball, but to emphasize that if you saw the grey area there, I'd hope you could see the lack of grey area in that website's overarching goal. I apologize - I see how that would seem disingenuous to you or anyone else.


    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    Now I understand the uproar. I didnt look at anything on the site except statistics. Thats my mistake and its a huge one. I take full responsibility for that. Im not calling for or in agreement with banning anything.

    I also posted a link to CDC for dog bites history.

    PF is a pretty small community yet there seems to be quite a few instances of negative interactions with pit bulls. Id call that a clue.
    Ive already said I dont like them . Im extremely biased against them, dont trust them, wouldnt be in the same vicinity as one, wouldnt let my kids pet one and have already been insistent that one of my kids who is an adult not accept one for free.
    I mentioned how many I see getting walked in my neighborhood. It concerns me even though Ive only seen one running free with the owner in hot pursuit. I stopped to help catch that dog. Ive also caught dogs with their owners in pursuit loaded the owners and dogs into my vehicle and given them a ride back to their house.
    Im sure there are people who have great pit bulls more power to them.
    (Emphasis mine)

    A lot of the PF'ers who weighed in with those negative interactions are LEO's or former LEO's. LEO's by trade have to deal with knuckleheads. Knuckleheads favor pitbulls and abuse them. So it's a 'chicken or the egg' scenario really. If Pitbulls were no more, the knuckleheads would favor another breed and they'd breed them to be aggressive and vicious, and small communities like ours with a high concentration of go-getter LEO's would doubtlessly have a lot of negative stories about that new 'evil' breed too.

    Pit bulls aren't magically able to slip any leash and jump any fence - It's a shitty human being that's deliberately not putting them on a leash or keeping them on a leash or in a properly contained yard that's at fault there.
    Do dogs get loose? Sure, I've had dogs that get loose and they love to take off running. But seeing a dog running with an owner in hot pursuit could be damn near any dog on the planet, and hardly indicative of a bad breed or a bad owner for that matter.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I might add that the only dog that ever bit me was a St. Bernard while I was shopping in a country store. That hurt like hell and the bruises lasted for a month. Fortunately just some muscle and tissue damage. Could have been a lot worse.
    Decades on I still have two (faded) scars on my hand from a Saint mix. My own damn fault. Big boy was having a stare down, growl down with another dog and teenage me waded in to grab his choker collar. Startled him and he swung his head around. CHOMP! Once he saw it was me released and dropped himself to the ground. Very sweet dog really. Amazing how much force in those jaws. Took a bit for the bruises and soreness to fade and it was just the one brief bite. Lessons were learned (the hard way...).
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  8. #98
    I am curious about the Pressa Canario. When the breed was first brought to the US in the late 1980s/early 1990s a big male weighed around 120ish lbs. isYours is 175 lbs. That seems quite a bit
    large. I have not kept up with the breed standards over the years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Mitchum View Post
    To each his own, I like serious dogs, mine are well trained, and my lifestyle can handle them.
    Big fenced in yard and live in a rural area, I have zero problems controlling my dogs.
    I stopped taking them out in public because of A holes running up and saying wow what kind of dog is that and trying to pet them.

    They are not for everyone and should not be owned by most people, they have made it hard to go on vacation sometimes.
    I don't inflict my choice on others and have no use for A holes who get a serious dog and have no clue on what to do.
    If I had the money back, I spent on top Quilty food obedience and bite work I would have a lot of money to buy some toys!

    Once we got him to stop trying to eat the cat, he is a 178-pound Teddy Bear with us but not so good with strangers.
    He will never be put in a bad situation to get into trouble, I have made arrangements if something happens to me a friend will take him and any cat or dog we own.

  9. #99
    [QUOTE=Mercworx;1385527]Presas are fantastic dogs but I already fear for them since their reconstruction in the 70s. Certain types of people are getting their hands on them probably because of their looks and protective nature. I see people posting Presa pups for sale that probably donít meet the breed standard by a wide margin. Same thing is happening to the Cane Corso.

    We looked into Presas for our next dog but I know they can be a little gamey and decided against it. Great dogs though. Surprised people approach you to pet them, my friend has one and people will cross the street before going near him. Our problem is our CO just looks like a big fluffy dog. The west is conditioned to find big fluffy dogs approachable.


    The Kennel, I got him from has titled dogs, they do DNA Profiling ... you get what you pay for.
    Not many have approach going in public but there is always the one person who comes rolling up fast which is not a smart thing to do.
    My Wife wanted nothing to do with the breed, but she is now the biggest fan of them.

    Pictures do him no justice he is very large for the lines he comes from 30" at the withers 174 pounds.
    The girls at the Vet office go nuts over him, I like the fact he can go in public and act calm but if I said a certain word, it would get ugly quick.

    He reminds me of the Bandogs we had very loving with us but can handle a bad situation very fast.

    I don't deal with Thug mentality people or breeders I am not directing this at you Mercworx... but some love to lump everyone who owns certain breeds as low life's looking for attention.
    We have rescued a lot of dogs over the years .. breeds that I would have never paid a dime for but to my surprise I cried just as hard and sometimes more when they passed.


    This one was dumbed down the road and we took her in, and she lived 14 years with us.
    A silly chocolate lab that broke my heart when she passed.
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  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L View Post
    I am curious about the Pressa Canario. When the breed was first brought to the US in the late 1980s/early 1990s a big male weighed around 120ish lbs. isYours is 175 lbs. That seems quite a bit
    large. I have not kept up with the breed standards over the years.
    He is very big for the working lines he comes from the Sire was 146 pounds 26" at the withers, the Female was 130 pounds.
    I just wanted a 140-pound male and was surprised he is this big.

    I knew Mac Harris a long time ago that's where I first thought about the breed.
    Joe Lucero is the guy I got my Bandogs from, when they passed, I looked at similar dog breeds Pressa Canario.
    The breeder I use now is very well respected and Imports from Spain and other good lines for their breeding program



    Some lines can grow to Monster size Mac was breeding in the 80's

    Last edited by Robert Mitchum; 08-20-2022 at 01:02 AM.
    Remember What the Doormouse Said = Feed your head

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