RFI: tire backstops

[whomever]

My googling finds results that are all over the map - they are great, they are terrible, you do/don't get ricochets and bouncebacks, they do/don't catch fire, etc. Most comments don't specify details - are the tires empty or filled with dirt, etc. Some suggest it matters whether they are steel belted. The predominant opinion is that they work great, but I trust opinions on PF more than other random fora, and would love to hear from people with experience with them.

The situation: we have rural land. Stopping bullets isn't the problem; the target is at the base of a 300 ft ridge. The nearest neighbor is over a mile away, etc. But the soil is rocky, and this is wildfire country. When it isn't fire season, no problem, but in a dry August I reeeaaallly don't want to be starting wildfires. The predominant use would be rimfire, but occasional centerfire would be nice.

As a complicating factor, bringing in a dump truck load of sand isn't practical; it's a gnarly 4WD road. Even the materials I can bring via pickup have to be backpacked 400 yds.

I'm considering stacks of worn out tires; I can get similarly sized ones in quantity, enough for say a 5x5 foot barrier. I'd slightly stagger stacks so there is no chance of a pass through at the seam between stacks, and fill with the local rocky dirt. I'm assuming that hitting a rock inside a tire isn't a problem fire-wise.

Experience and advice welcomed.

[TiroFijo]

My googling finds results that are all over the map - they are great, they are terrible, you do/don't get ricochets and bouncebacks, they do/don't catch fire, etc. Most comments don't specify details - are the tires empty or filled with dirt, etc. Some suggest it matters whether they are steel belted. The predominant opinion is that they work great, but I trust opinions on PF more than other random fora, and would love to hear from people with experience with them.

The situation: we have rural land. Stopping bullets isn't the problem; the target is at the base of a 300 ft ridge. The nearest neighbor is over a mile away, etc. But the soil is rocky, and this is wildfire country. When it isn't fire season, no problem, but in a dry August I reeeaaallly don't want to be starting wildfires. The predominant use would be rimfire, but occasional centerfire would be nice.

As a complicating factor, bringing in a dump truck load of sand isn't practical; it's a gnarly 4WD road. Even the materials I can bring via pickup have to be backpacked 400 yds.

I'm considering stacks of worn out tires; I can get similarly sized ones in quantity, enough for say a 5x5 foot barrier. I'd slightly stagger stacks so there is no chance of a pass through at the seam between stacks, and fill with the local rocky dirt. I'm assuming that hitting a rock inside a tire isn't a problem fire-wise.

Experience and advice welcomed.

In my experience (ranges 10-50 m) pistol bullets sometimes bounce back... specially large subsonic calibers. At longer ranges or with high velocity rifle bullets I don't remember them making it back to the firing line, or at least as often.

[TiroFijo]

My googling finds results that are all over the map - they are great, they are terrible, you do/don't get ricochets and bouncebacks, they do/don't catch fire, etc. Most comments don't specify details - are the tires empty or filled with dirt, etc. Some suggest it matters whether they are steel belted. The predominant opinion is that they work great, but I trust opinions on PF more than other random fora, and would love to hear from people with experience with them.

The situation: we have rural land. Stopping bullets isn't the problem; the target is at the base of a 300 ft ridge. The nearest neighbor is over a mile away, etc. But the soil is rocky, and this is wildfire country. When it isn't fire season, no problem, but in a dry August I reeeaaallly don't want to be starting wildfires. The predominant use would be rimfire, but occasional centerfire would be nice.

As a complicating factor, bringing in a dump truck load of sand isn't practical; it's a gnarly 4WD road. Even the materials I can bring via pickup have to be backpacked 400 yds.

I'm considering stacks of worn out tires; I can get similarly sized ones in quantity, enough for say a 5x5 foot barrier. I'd slightly stagger stacks so there is no chance of a pass through at the seam between stacks, and fill with the local rocky dirt. I'm assuming that hitting a rock inside a tire isn't a problem fire-wise.

Experience and advice welcomed.

In my experience (ranges 10-50 m) pistol bullets sometimes bounce back... specially large subsonic calibers. At longer ranges or with high velocity rifle bullets I don't remember them making it back to the firing line, or at least as often. A 45 slug that bounces back from a tire does so at relatively slow velocity, but small injuries are possible or even dangerous in the neck/face/eyes area.

High velocity jacketed bullets can bounce back nastily (very dangerously) even at 100+ m if your steel plates are deformed, cratered or have protruding/rounded profiles. Always use hard steel plates rated for you intended velocity, and hang and orientate their facing angles properly.

[JCN]

@whomever

I agree with @TiroFijo

I would rather use good steel targets over tires.

Would it be possible for you to shovel sandbags and stack instead of tires? If there’s local sand on the land that would be ideal.

[whomever]

TiroFijo: are your bounce backs from tires filled with soil/sand/gravel, or unfilled tires? I ask because my googling seemed to indicate filled tires didn't have that problem (maybe it stiffened the tire enough the bullet penetrates instead of rebounding?).

JCN: no sand alas. I carried a few hundred pounds up there, to make a much smaller back stop, but humping enough for a bigger one would be ... even more tedious :-(. Plus you have the maintenance issue of shot up sandbags.

As far as steel targets, I dunno about the sparking issue, and 25 square feet of rifle rated steel would be heavy, expensive, and since I can't carry a single 5x5 piece up, I'd have seams to deal with. I don't object to small steel targets, and will use them in the wet season, but you still need a backstop, e.g. for misses.

I might put up one tire as an experiment and see if I get bounce backs.

[Flamingo]

You could look at HESCO type barriers. I have shot into a them at pretty close range, with rifle and pistol, and we never had issues with them.

[BN]

I think I remember a range having problems with the EPA over a tire backstop. I'm pretty sure there are regulations about how to handle old worn out tires. I've also heard the bounce back stories.

[TiroFijo]

TiroFijo: are your bounce backs from tires filled with soil/sand/gravel, or unfilled tires? I ask because my googling seemed to indicate filled tires didn't have that problem (maybe it stiffened the tire enough the bullet penetrates instead of rebounding?).

JCN: no sand alas. I carried a few hundred pounds up there, to make a much smaller back stop, but humping enough for a bigger one would be ... even more tedious :-(. Plus you have the maintenance issue of shot up sandbags.

As far as steel targets, I dunno about the sparking issue, and 25 square feet of rifle rated steel would be heavy, expensive, and since I can't carry a single 5x5 piece up, I'd have seams to deal with. I don't object to small steel targets, and will use them in the wet season, but you still need a backstop, e.g. for misses.

I might put up one tire as an experiment and see if I get bounce backs.

My experience is with filled tires, but the fillings degrade/fall off with time and this likely causes/increases the bounce backs.

[UNK]

TiroFijo: are your bounce backs from tires filled with soil/sand/gravel, or unfilled tires? I ask because my googling seemed to indicate filled tires didn't have that problem (maybe it stiffened the tire enough the bullet penetrates instead of rebounding?).

JCN: no sand alas. I carried a few hundred pounds up there, to make a much smaller back stop, but humping enough for a bigger one would be ... even more tedious :-(. Plus you have the maintenance issue of shot up sandbags.

As far as steel targets, I dunno about the sparking issue, and 25 square feet of rifle rated steel would be heavy, expensive, and since I can't carry a single 5x5 piece up, I'd have seams to deal with. I don't object to small steel targets, and will use them in the wet season, but you still need a backstop, e.g. for misses.

I might put up one tire as an experiment and see if I get bounce backs.

My military experience with sandbags at firing ranges is they set up like concrete. A .45 would be laying on top of the soil on the other side. The ball nose would be intact, the lead would squished out the end like jagged talon claws. Not my targets but some peoples targets 😁

[CSW]

Cherry ridge range, in NJ, part of the ANJRPC used to use dirt and tires for the backstop of the 200/300/600 range.
I have experienced many "bounce backs" from high powered rifles while scoring in the pits there.
I never really liked the idea of having that as a backstop.

I have not been to that range in over ten years, so it may have been improved.