Current Consensus on Number of Rounds of Defensive Ammo to Vet Contemporary Pistols

[revchuck38]

I pretty much stick to HST 147 and Gold Dot 124 +P because I have fed those two rounds through so many guns with no issues. Berettas, HKs, Glocks, M&Ps, CZs. Those are just two very well designed "cooperative with everything" rounds. Sticking with them is one of the reasons I don't feel the need to vet with multiple hundreds of rounds anymore. They probably work, my 4-6 test magazines are just confirming that.

This has pretty much been my experience with HST in 9x19, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. In 9x19, the 124-grain +P version runs in everything I've tried, even an unmodified early Sig P6 that's only supposed to be reliable with hardball. The .45 ACP version even runs in my 1911s. Running those two magazines through the incoming M&P40 is pretty much pro forma since the M&P was designed as a .40 and they have an excellent record for reliability. But still, stuff happens, and I want to check it.

[BWT]

So much truth it hurts.... because you suck and we hate you....

No. Compromise.







Not even a little bit.

I’ve been tempted by H&K guns many times in fairness. They make great guns. I’ll probably own one before it’s over.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

No. Compromise.







Not even a little bit.

I’ve been tempted by H&K guns many times in fairness. They make great guns. I’ll probably own one before it’s over.

You only live once, maybe twice, if you're James Bond. It's hard to go wrong with an H&K if you like hammers, especially.

[karmapolice]

Typical is 250-500 rounds of training ammo with 100 rounds of carry/duty ammo for zeroing and functioning testing. Most the time if I was switching to a new gun for carry it would be a generation change on a Glock so I would run the new one for training for a bit before switching and then get a second new one to make the training gun and the other one would become the carry gun. Right now I only have one Staccato when I get a second for a training/back up gun I just will stop shooting the one I carry for training other than to check the zero.

[Flashman]

I don't know the answer, only my problems with Glock 19 Gen 4's over six years. All three developed light strikes between 600 and 900 rounds. Went through a long and painful process of ferreting the cause(s) starting with the ammunition to striker springs. Also, the first two eventually developed ejection problems. The bottom line is that by the third 19 I was very dialed into the shortcomings and fixes for this platform but in hindsight should have completely dumped it for the Gen 5 (both of which have been problem free since day one).

So, maybe 100 to 150 rounds is OK but it depends..........

[Navin Johnson]

Despite feelings I’ll have to run with TLG on this one

I think the point that has been missed is that just cause you got a good product from company X doesn’t mean the next product will be good.

Social ammunition should be bought in multiples of 1000 as manufactures can change powders on different runs. A new batch should be tested In your serious toys.

Magazines are wear items and they need to be tested with the new ammo also

Or buy a revolver.

[SW CQB 45]

potential horror story.

early on when we got our Glock 21 (1993), they had 90 degree cut extractors and we were breaking extractors left and right.

Glock sent us 10 slides and we would send our slides in for a 15 degree cut by the extractor ejection area and the new extractor.

One officer got his slide back from Glock, carried it for 6 months on the street. We went to qualify, and his gun went CLICK.

His Glock firing pin channel had metal shavings blocking the firing pin. EEEK!

after that, all returned slides ment a trip to the range and test firing before street use.

[feudist]

We've seen a lot of malfunctions in OIS videos, mostly attributed to operator error due to low levels of training and the "airbag in your face" violent nature of the incidents.
It's well known that range qualification scores have almost zero correlation to results in gunfights. It looks like mechanical and operator reliability are also overrated on the range versus the street.
Part of vetting the gun might be somehow testing the interface between the shooter and the pistol/magazine/load combination.
One might then find that for you, the Remchester is xx% more reliable than the Sigretta.

I tried to "worst case" my Glocks during vetting with movement, weak hand limp wristing and even shooting supine weak hand only. I tested each carry mag with 100 duty loads after shooting several hundred ball rounds through the gun.
I shot the gun dirty, dry, hot and at cyclic speed.
After putting it in service I continued to train vigorously and extensively with thousands of rounds.
Come the days, it was all in vain.
Twice.

[JonInWA]

Just some food for thought.

If you are going to gussy up your gun, replace parts, disassemble, detail strip, clean, lube and reassemble you had better make darn sure it still works!

I know some serious dudes who said they never went outside the wire with a clean gun. Always test fired after any maintenance before going to work.

I'll somewhat buy into that, but my protocol always has been, and is still to clean and lubricate after each shooting. I'll go along with the previous p-f discussions that between cleaning and lubricating the most critical component is lubricating, but in decades of actively shooting I've never experienced any issues attributable to cleaning and lubricating after use.

When parts are replaced, the gun is always function tested, test fired, cleaned, lubed and placed back in duty. My preferences are when replacement components are injected into the mix, to do all of the above, but before placing into duty, first run the gun in an IDPA or ASI match, then clean, lubricate, etc. as a sort of extended function check prior to placing into duty.

Best, Jon

[LockedBreech]

potential horror story.

early on when we got our Glock 21 (1993), they had 90 degree cut extractors and we were breaking extractors left and right.

Glock sent us 10 slides and we would send our slides in for a 15 degree cut by the extractor ejection area and the new extractor.

One officer got his slide back from Glock, carried it for 6 months on the street. We went to qualify, and his gun went CLICK.

His Glock firing pin channel had metal shavings blocking the firing pin. EEEK!

after that, all returned slides ment a trip to the range and test firing before street use.

I've posted about this before, but I briefly dated a relative rookie lady LEO (less than a year sworn). Dated is generous. We hung out like mid-20-year-olds hang out I suppose. Anyway, one day she comes to hang out after being on duty and I notice she has a new G17 and I ask if I can check it out. Checking it out I notice to my horror she put the slide back on after cleaning and missed the right-side rails. The gun was completely inoperable. I asked when she had taken the gun apart and it was several days prior. She'd done 2-3 shifts with an entirely nonfunctional sidearm. She did not understand why I was so upset with her but got quieter when I asked what would have happened if she needed to back up one of her fellow officers. She ended up following a non-LEO, non-armed career track about 6 months later. Very much for the best. Like your story, a true heebie-jeebie moment. It's a story I tell often because complacency really is the most serious threat when it comes to firearms. Not choosing the wrong ammo, not having an FTF/FTE, but just that deadly-ass complacency, whether it's "the gun isn't loaded" or "I'm sure the gun is in working order." Deadly.