Projecting Confidence in a Self-Defense Encounter

[Odin Bravo One]

………finding that sort of training, especially for those without access to .mil/.le training resources, can be very difficult but I am such a believer in the effectiveness I think it's worth it.

It can be tempting to convince ourselves that the only quality instruction or training we can get is going to come from someone with more experience, diversity of experiences, and considered to be a Subject Matter Expert.

While I concur this is my preferred method of developing new skills, or honing existing skills, this is one case where I don’t feel a seasoned instructor is truly necessary. In a well designed and developed FoF program, the opposition will almost always be professionals who stick to a script, and this is by design so the course material flows and builds upon the block of instruction prior, as well as giving a degree of positive control over the level of violence and intensity.

Unfortunately, these training artificialities do translate to improperly evaluating our skills. True assailants are unpredictable. While you may not know the script in a FoF scenario, you can be sure your opponent will stick to it in most formal FoF courses. Courses that use student as OPFOR and trainees eliminates the script but carries with it a whole other slew of potential problems; who are the students? Back grounds? Experience? Will they release when tapped? Etc.

Taking the same gear, creating a few safety protocols, and using the riff raff from your social/work/shooting circles, learn the hard way. Trial and error. A video camera and tripod are especially useful in capturing the entirety of the scenario for an accurate debrief, to include noises, lighting, who said what, and when, etc. The debrief in these cases is 10x what the action is. The action is what the action is. It’s dissecting each step of the situation, and identifying decision points that could have altered the outcome, what those decisions might have been, etc. Sometimes it’s about a technique or tactic but it’s most beneficial to do your own self-critique, w/ a second opinion to keep you from creating a vacuum of your own opinions, but the most learning is going to come from getting your fucking ass kicked, then getting to watch it from a 3rd person POV, and see the how/why behind you getting your shit pushed in.

[45dotACP]

It can be tempting to convince ourselves that the only quality instruction or training we can get is going to come from someone with more experience, diversity of experiences, and considered to be a Subject Matter Expert.

While I concur this is my preferred method of developing new skills, or honing existing skills, this is one case where I don’t feel a seasoned instructor is truly necessary. In a well designed and developed FoF program, the opposition will almost always be professionals who stick to a script, and this is by design so the course material flows and builds upon the block of instruction prior, as well as giving a degree of positive control over the level of violence and intensity.

Unfortunately, these training artificialities do translate to improperly evaluating our skills. True assailants are unpredictable. While you may not know the script in a FoF scenario, you can be sure your opponent will stick to it in most formal FoF courses. Courses that use student as OPFOR and trainees eliminates the script but carries with it a whole other slew of potential problems; who are the students? Back grounds? Experience? Will they release when tapped? Etc.

Taking the same gear, creating a few safety protocols, and using the riff raff from your social/work/shooting circles, learn the hard way. Trial and error. A video camera and tripod are especially useful in capturing the entirety of the scenario for an accurate debrief, to include noises, lighting, who said what, and when, etc. The debrief in these cases is 10x what the action is. The action is what the action is. It’s dissecting each step of the situation, and identifying decision points that could have altered the outcome, what those decisions might have been, etc. Sometimes it’s about a technique or tactic but it’s most beneficial to do your own self-critique, w/ a second opinion to keep you from creating a vacuum of your own opinions, but the most learning is going to come from getting your fucking ass kicked, then getting to watch it from a 3rd person POV, and see the how/why behind you getting your shit pushed in.

I wish I could like this post three times

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[NH Shooter]

As a 5'7", 68 year old who is now nowhere as fit as I used to be, over weight and was never athletic to start with, going "hands-on" will not end well for me. I depend on SA, failing the interview, MUC/verbal judo and de-escalation to keep that from happening.

If that fails, I'm not left with many options.

[BehindBlueI's]

It can be tempting to convince ourselves that the only quality instruction or training we can get is going to come from someone with more experience, diversity of experiences, and considered to be a Subject Matter Expert.

While I concur this is my preferred method of developing new skills, or honing existing skills, this is one case where I don’t feel a seasoned instructor is truly necessary. In a well designed and developed FoF program, the opposition will almost always be professionals who stick to a script, and this is by design so the course material flows and builds upon the block of instruction prior, as well as giving a degree of positive control over the level of violence and intensity.

Unfortunately, these training artificialities do translate to improperly evaluating our skills. True assailants are unpredictable. While you may not know the script in a FoF scenario, you can be sure your opponent will stick to it in most formal FoF courses. Courses that use student as OPFOR and trainees eliminates the script but carries with it a whole other slew of potential problems; who are the students? Back grounds? Experience? Will they release when tapped? Etc.

Taking the same gear, creating a few safety protocols, and using the riff raff from your social/work/shooting circles, learn the hard way. Trial and error. A video camera and tripod are especially useful in capturing the entirety of the scenario for an accurate debrief, to include noises, lighting, who said what, and when, etc. The debrief in these cases is 10x what the action is. The action is what the action is. It’s dissecting each step of the situation, and identifying decision points that could have altered the outcome, what those decisions might have been, etc. Sometimes it’s about a technique or tactic but it’s most beneficial to do your own self-critique, w/ a second opinion to keep you from creating a vacuum of your own opinions, but the most learning is going to come from getting your fucking ass kicked, then getting to watch it from a 3rd person POV, and see the how/why behind you getting your shit pushed in.

I was just discussing the limitations with someone else off forum. The lack of pre-attack indicators was the biggest weakness I pointed out. There is a certain artificiality to it, of course, and the decision making is greatly simplified, number of stimulus sources is generally pretty low, the fear of repercussions from wrong decision making is blunted, etc. etc. I've had FoF that ranged from one-on-one to nearly 200 role players and while none were *real* I still found it to be both useful and confidence building. I think there's *generally* less ambiguity in scenarios concealed carriers are faced with as well, though of course there are no guarantees.

[feudist]

Of course, one never knows what level of predator one might encounter, and nothing can be taken for granted, especially these days, it seems.

Couple of examples, verbal and non-verbal.

Riding the subway home from the federal building in NYC I spied a guy who was clearly sizing up one or two potential victims for either a purse snatch, chain snatch or straight up mugging.

I waited for him to make eye contact and when he did, I nodded to him, (to let him know that I knew what he was about), and let my jacket fall open showing my holster under a sport coat. He got off at the next stop.


On another occasion, I had to report for jury duty and on my walk to the subway from my apartment I came upon one guy beating the tar out of another.

I attempted to break it up with a verbal command and was told by the perp that he'd shove my badge up my ass. Since I didn't want to find out if he could, and didn't want to start a gunfight out of a fist fight, I picked up the phone, (there was a convenient public phone right there on the corner), and called for assistance.

The guy ran off at that point. It turned out they were brothers-in-law. I didn't ask what the beef was about.

By the way, I got to court on time...only to be dismissed as a juror on a peremptory challenge...but we know the reason why.

You punned in Voir Dire?

[blues]

[/COLOR]
You punned in Voir Dire?

done worse

[Odin Bravo One]

As a 5'7", 68 year old who is now nowhere as fit as I used to be, over weight and was never athletic to start with, going "hands-on" will not end well for me. I depend on SA, failing the interview, MUC/verbal judo and de-escalation to keep that from happening.

If that fails, I'm not left with many options.

I’m not physically capable of hands on fighting either. Is what it is. I am unable to train for it. Unable to develop the cardiovascular fitness necessary to increase the odds of success, and I’m limited to lifting no more than 25 lbs. Ever.

SA fails to avoid, de-escalation and verbal judo isn’t working, then you gotta do whatever you gotta do. I know going in that the odds will not be ever in my favor. But as with all things related to my safety and that of my loved ones, it’s not the odds. It’s the stakes.

Capable or not, if that moment comes, you can bet I’ll be swinging for the fences and tossing haymakers like I’m the 3rd monkey on the ramp to Noah’s Ark, and it’s starting to rain.

[Odin Bravo One]

The lack of pre-attack indicators was the biggest weakness I pointed out. There is a certain artificiality to it…………I think there's *generally* less ambiguity in scenarios concealed carriers are faced with as well, though of course there are no guarantees.

First quoted line is precisely why I prefer FoF w/ trusted associates versus strangers under someone else’s risk management safeguards and training philosophy. When I taught open enrollment courses, as much as I wanted to relay useful information, it’s the repetitions that ingrain habits, and turn us from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence. I see this concept applied to FoF, where in reality, the bulk of the training and learning comes not on the “X”, but in the AAR. We also get to set the pace, create the scenarios, and include the additional relevant information a CHL holder might encounter, such as pre-assault/pre-attack/targeting indicators. We also get to add scenarios based on recent events in our area, as well as cater training to trending violent crimes that may or may not have a common M.O.

Second line, I contemplated for a bit. I’m not sure if I concur or not. There are a lot of misconceptions & misperceptions regarding LE, Mil, and civilian use of deadly force. LEOs have it pretty well laid out for them in writing, both statutory and agency policy……. Black and white, straight forward, and while a scenario may have ambiguity, the laws and policies do not. Stay inside of those, and you’ll be in a righteous shooting. Color outside the lines, and all bets are off.

Mil? Barring some Mai Lai shit, even among the organizations who have incredibly high standards of performance, highly unlikely to get thrown under the bus for a life and death decision made under duress while living in an austere and unsecure environment.

Both of the above groups also have a degree of mandate/expectation. Granted, present day LE is packed full of pussies who refuse to live up the #1 priority of LEOs; preserve life. Those cowards aside, it’s pretty clear when a LEO, soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine are justified in using deadly force.

As Joe Shit the Rag Man, I’d argue the waters get murky fast. I don’t have a legal or moral obligation to protect anyone outside of my family. But for someone who spent his entire adult life running towards the sound of gunfire and explosions, that could be a tough pill for me to swallow.

No matter how we envision our deadly force encounters will play out, we are wrong. And without formal training regarding the use of force as recognized by your local/state governments, specifically deadly force, an agency policy to help guide your decision making process, and no supervisor to call for a second opinion, I’d argue the civilian CHL holder/carrier is likely to face more ambiguity in a potentially violent encounter than the previous two groups.

[blues]

I've said it before, but feel it's worth mentioning in this context. I found realistic Simunitions reps, particularly with pain feedback, very helpful in building confidence prior to the actual event. So much so that "this is just like that Simunitions drill" went through my mind as I moved up to the car the shooter was firing from. And it was, it was so much like a drill we'd had a few months prior where the driver of a truck was the bad guy my subconscious brain felt like it had already done this and came out unscathed. I know finding that sort of training, especially for those without access to .mil/.le training resources, can be very difficult but I am such a believer in the effectiveness I think it's worth it.

I agree. When I went through my first SWAT school in the late 80's, Chris Caracci was our primary instructor, (he was with Ft. Lauderdale P.D. at the time), and he set up an ambush on our team during a night entry at a concrete factory in the Everglades.

I remember getting shot in the left forearm from a stairwell on the left, and that stung, but it stung Chris more as we had shot at the same time and he got hit center of mass. (I cavalierly told him we did that sort of stuff all the time growing up...when we sat down later on to discuss it.)

Definitely adds a dimension to the training.

[Totem Polar]

I remember getting shot in the left forearm from a stairwell on the left, and that stung, but it stung Chris more as we had shot at the same time and he got hit center of mass. (I cavalierly told him we did that sort of stuff all the time growing up...when we sat down later on to discuss it.)

A little feather in the fun cap, for anyone who knows that guy’s background.

I have his famous knife design on me right now.