"Don't Outrun Your Headlights"

[NH Shooter]

Having been introduced to shooting pistols 40 years ago in a NRA Bullseye league (which I participated in for eight years), and then participating in PPC matches for another ten, I've always had kind of the opposite problem. Later on, when I did some IPSC and IDPA shooting, my accuracy-centric roots remained evident with nice groups produced at not-so-blazing speed.

Oddly, later on when I shot some IDPA matches with my PPS M1, the fast splits looking over the sights at seven yards and closer began producing some decent results. I have attributed this to how well the pistol fits my hand as I struggle to match the fast-firing results with larger pistols.

I suspect my brain became hopelessly hard-wired for accuracy over speed from the beginning. Whether that's an advantage or a liability in more serious circumstances will hopefully remain to be seen.

That’s of course in addition to situational awareness and avoiding conflict when possible.

The utility of that mindset cannot be over-stated.

[jlw]

Each shot is an individual decision. The average human reaction time to a known stimulus is .25 seconds. Reaction time plus movement equals response time. We don't know the average reaction time to an unknown stimulus as there is no way to measure it.

It takes the same amount of time to stop an action as it does to start an action. If one is shooting faster than their response time window, they may very well fire shots that are not legally justified or shots that pass through air where the threat once stood. I've investigated one shooting in which the latter occurred, and I have seen video of others.

The parking lot is a completely different legal animal than cardboard and paper in front of a dirt berm.

The above being written, there is a correlation between technical skill and processing power, but there is also a point of diminishing return, and a high level of technical skill does not directly translate to an understanding and application of the legal framework of justification.

A B-class use of force expert shouldn't try to tell a GM how to shoot matches, but a GM card doesn't qualify one to explain justification to people who have been recognized as experts by the courts.

[blues]

Each shot is an individual decision. The average human reaction time to a known stimulus is .25 seconds. Reaction time plus movement equals response time. We don't know the average reaction time to an unknown stimulus as there is no way to measure it.

It takes the same amount of time to stop an action as it does to start an action. If one is shooting faster than their response time window, they may very well fire shots that are not legally justified or shots that pass through air where the threat once stood. I've investigated one shooting in which the latter occurred, and I have seen video of others.

The parking lot is a completely different legal animal than cardboard and paper in front of a dirt berm.

The above being written, there is a correlation between technical skill and processing power, but there is also a point of diminishing return, and a high level of technical skill does not directly translate to an understanding and application of the legal framework of justification.

A B-class use of force expert shouldn't try to tell a GM how to shoot matches, but a GM card doesn't qualify one to explain justification to people who have been recognized as experts by the courts.

Amen.

[Utm]

I’m on a lunch break for work and reading this and mulling it over.

My training goals have been honestly a theory of pushing myself physically (speed and precision in shooting and practically getting in the gym and losing weight) to lower the amount of mental bandwidth shooting requires and get my body in better shape to live a healthy life but also be effective.

I honestly had the thought should I try to hunting with my carry gun reading this (if able) or start shooting USPSA from concealment, etc.

I think that and finding quality training are about as close as I can get to preparing myself.

I know this - the legal ramifications and political ramifications. I can analyze a lot, but I can’t do much to prevent or change. So in my opinion just try to address the difficulties I’m able to somewhat maintain. Wear good shoes when out in public (I do love sandals in the summer though man), get rest, exercise, carry a capable weapon and be able to use it, get off the cell phone in stores despite the urge with air pods to catch up with friends (side benefit is I’ll be more present as I’m usually bringing around kids) in one ear, and other little nuances.

What do you guys do to prepare? I mean I’m just trying to break this down into steps of “what parts can I do something about?” and “what are pieces I can’t do a thing about”.

ETA:

What I didn’t say but intended was I think the best goal is to learn to shoot in live at a cadence the target responds to. I really do think a bill drill would probably be best and it’s part of the reason I train it for most situations. But, what’re the thoughts there?

What does processing speed mean and what is processing I guess is the real question. Because that’s going to be a variability that’s vastly different for various folks.

Shooting uspsa will prepare majority of people more than taking a class in my opinion. It's a true test of skill and will really show you where your unconscious skills are at. You have to process gun handling while moving and remembering target arrays at different distances which will make you throttle control

[JCN]

Each shot is an individual decision. The average human reaction time to a known stimulus is .25 seconds. Reaction time plus movement equals response time. We don't know the average reaction time to an unknown stimulus as there is no way to measure it.

It takes the same amount of time to stop an action as it does to start an action. If one is shooting faster than their response time window, they may very well fire shots that are not legally justified or shots that pass through air where the threat once stood. I've investigated one shooting in which the latter occurred, and I have seen video of others.

The parking lot is a completely different legal animal than cardboard and paper in front of a dirt berm.

The above being written, there is a correlation between technical skill and processing power, but there is also a point of diminishing return, and a high level of technical skill does not directly translate to an understanding and application of the legal framework of justification.

A B-class use of force expert shouldn't try to tell a GM how to shoot matches, but a GM card doesn't qualify one to explain justification to people who have been recognized as experts by the courts.

Similarly also firearms trainers shouldn’t purport to be neuroscience experts.

There are novel scenario reaction time experiments. Usually reaction time is on the order of 0.50+ depending on how confusing the stimulus is.

Also, it does NOT take the same amount of time to abort a function as opposed to completing an action.

Because the time to execute a function includes the muscle execution time after initiation of nerve impulse while aborting an action is just the nerve time of decision without the latent time of muscle activation.

There’s one less step in aborting than executing.

The rest of your points are valid.

I qualified that my experience is just gaming and that situational awareness and avoidance should be practiced regardless.

Just speaking from a mechanical skill standpoint, the more subconscious your mechanics the more bandwidth you have to process other things like decision making.

Note that on difficult shots requiring judgement, I’m only shooting at 0.30-0.80 splits because that’s as fast as I can judge and hit. It’s not discordant with the message.

[feudist]

We need:
An inexpensive, lightweight clothable 3D target with a demanding invisible 3D "A" zone that usually works and a spine that always works, that moves erratically, responds unpredictably when hit anywhere and is usable in high rep solo practice.

IOW, a target that randomly may take multiple rounds to "stop"-or sometimes stops when hit anywhere- yet rewards marksmanship.

I've made 3D cardboard balloon suspended targets and hung them between a couple of swinger bases. That was ok but time intensive and resulted in low reps. Years ago I made targets that would contain a bowling pin. Those were quite tough to put down, so much so that I called them "Pipe Hitters". An off center hit would make them jerk but not fall over. But they didn't move, so I did. Again, time consuming, expensive and required privacy to use.

I've recently shot a plate rack at 15 yards with 8x10" plates that didn't always go down with a less than perfect hit. The split time to recognize the failure and follow it up with a hit was substantial, running anywhere from high .60s cold to mid .40s as I grooved in. Grooving in itself is rather problematic in terms of on-demand performance, and this groove was pretty simple. As always with irons on plates, it was shockingly easy to miss.
How could you randomize a steel target's reactions? I've shot "shotgun poppers" that took multiple hits to drive down unless you banked one off the very tip of the top, but that's not quite it.

[Utm]

Each shot is an individual decision. The average human reaction time to a known stimulus is .25 seconds. Reaction time plus movement equals response time. We don't know the average reaction time to an unknown stimulus as there is no way to measure it.

It takes the same amount of time to stop an action as it does to start an action. If one is shooting faster than their response time window, they may very well fire shots that are not legally justified or shots that pass through air where the threat once stood. I've investigated one shooting in which the latter occurred, and I have seen video of others.

The parking lot is a completely different legal animal than cardboard and paper in front of a dirt berm.

The above being written, there is a correlation between technical skill and processing power, but there is also a point of diminishing return, and a high level of technical skill does not directly translate to an understanding and application of the legal framework of justification.

A B-class use of force expert shouldn't try to tell a GM how to shoot matches, but a GM card doesn't qualify one to explain justification to people who have been recognized as experts by the courts.

I don't know that there's a point of diminishing return. I don't know how you could have too much technical skill

[jlw]

Shooting uspsa will prepare majority of people more than taking a class in my opinion. It's a true test of skill and will really show you where your unconscious skills are at. You have to process gun handling while moving and remembering target arrays at different distances which will make you throttle control

On the technical side: maybe. A "good" shooter is probably going to get more benefit from a match than their 27th pistol class, but a novice is probably going to benefit more from coaching than finishing last in a match.

I don't know that there's a point of diminishing return. I don't know how you could have too much technical skill

I didn't state anything close to "too much skill". There is a point of diminishing return where would be better off maintaining skill and focusing on learning and practicing tactics instead of chasing a bump from A to M (example).


Edit to add:

I saw a tremendous increase in skill once I was exposed to matches, but I plateaued in large part due to my only trigger time being the matches (obviously not a key to match success). I obtained more consistency via my exposure to the open enrollment training circuit. I'm certainly not anti-competition. When I venture back to a match now, I find myself bored after about three stages. I prefer classes as I like to see how other people organize and present information and find them to be more mentally stimulating. I realize that's a personal mileage type of thing.

[Utm]

On the technical side: maybe. A "good" shooter is probably going to get more benefit from a match than their 27th pistol class, but a novice is probably going to benefit more from coaching than finishing last in a match.

I don't disagree with that


I didn't state anything close to "too much skill". There is a point of diminishing return where would be better off maintaining skill and focusing on learning and practicing tactics instead of chasing a bump from A to M (example).

They could do both, one does not detract from the other. The amount of tactics one would need to learn in the civilian realm is pretty limited though. The ability to clear your house and fight in some form or fashion with empty hands are about it.

[jlw]

They could do both, one does not detract from the other. The amount of tactics one would need to learn in the civilian realm is pretty limited though. The ability to clear your house and fight in some form or fashion with empty hands are about it.

They can do both provided they have the time and resources.