Fully agree. Emergency HR is one thing and when that flag goes up, even patrol should have some modicum of capability (looking at you Uvalde). Planned deliberate HR is (in my opinion) far beyond a collateral duty team, and honestly probably a number of full-time teams. That’s the Super Bowl of tactical units.Originally Posted by TC215
Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.
Yep. I think there are just two or three fed tac teams that are authorized for deliberate HR. The part-time FBI team here trains a week every month, and they are quite good, but they’re still emergency HR only.
Of course, there are plenty of local teams that train 8-10 hours a month that think they can do anything because they’re “SWAT.”
Agreed. When I was SWAT Commander, I had already made the decision in my mind that should we ever have a true hostage situation scenario I’d be calling specific teams to help.
Formerly known as xpd54.
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Do they still screech about the SIS assassinator squad?
The SWAT commander I started under knew what we were capable of, and more importantly, what we weren't capable of. We planned this with FBI for years-- If we had a legit hostage, we would call the FBI regional team. They would respond and simultaneously call the enhanced team in Atlanta and HRT, who would both respond.Agreed. When I was SWAT Commander, I had already made the decision in my mind that should we ever have a true hostage situation scenario I’d be calling specific teams to help.
Fast forward a few years...that SWAT commander promoted out, and we got a new SWAT commander that thought we were SEAL Team 6. My last call-out, just a few days before I left the PD for my current agency, was a true hostage situation. Bad guy fires shots at a gas station and took the clerk hostage. Had a cocked 9mm to the clerk's head, finger on the trigger, for over six hours. I, as the only assistant team leader on scene, went to the SWAT commander and the brass and said we need to request the FBI team. I was told in no uncertain terms that we would be taking care of it by ourselves (which would have been way better if we had ever trained for such a thing).
Snipers were on one side of the building, and I had the entry team on the opposite side. I was literally having to walk guys through a HR entry (push and go, pull and hold, etc) because we never worked on HR stuff. It didn't matter, really, because the brass said we'd only get the greenlight if the bad guy shot the hostage.The only reason it ended peacefully was because the bad guy started coming down off his high and decided he didn't want to die.
We were supposed to be the "best" team in the region...Truthfully, we were just good (at some things)...we weren't great. I suspect that's true of a lot of part-time teams.
My SIS buddy says that their tactics have changed with time and technology...I don't think they find themselves in those situations as often as they used to. That's the impression he gives me, anyway.
Anytime the general public sees external body armor and/or a rifle, they call it SWAT. I got calls several times wanting to know why our "SWAT team" had deployed to a given location. I would respond that we didn't have a SWAT team, and the people would argue with me.
**Note: We did have a team at one point, but I disbanded it due to staffing issues. The new admin is trying to get one off of the ground.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
Unless you classified a negotiator talking the suspect to death as homicide. I had a friend who was a negotiator with another department, and he could talk you to death over breakfast.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
When I first started on SWAT there was a negotiator who was something like 0/5 for talking to suicidal subjects. I’m not sure if it was bad luck or the way she dealt with people.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
I worked with a guy who unsuccessfully attempted CPR numerous times.
Instead of his radio number, we began calling him but the radio code for notifying the coroner.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
The use of force percentages I discussed are based on nationwide SWAT responses. Not every team is LAPD or LASO. There are smaller jurisdictions that are more of a response team then a SWAT team. It’s been pretty much discussed about Tier levels and the need to know your limitations. jlw had a pretty good point about assumptions based on equipment seen.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
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