Main "Story"
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...d-review-finds
Referenced "story"
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...awsuit-alleges
"SWAT officers did not use force in 1,245 of the 1,350 incidents they responded to between 2012 and 2022 ... "
I’m no expert, but it seems that a true culture of violence would produce more than 20 shootings in 10 years across all personnel, given the type of work and the location.
In all, it seems like LAPD SWAT is actually pretty good at handling the things they get paid to handle.
JMO.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Only 20 OIS in all those incidents, and 5 incidents in which SWAT took fire but did not return fire.Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
I’ve alway heard that once SWAT arrives on scene and takes over the incident is safely resolved without force 90-95% of the time. The numbers here are right in line with that. I always laugh when people cry about SWAT serving warrants or handling other incidents. Who would you rather have serve a warrant or handle a barricade? A group of quiet professionals or a bunch of fear biters? Highly trained professionals with high stress inoculation used to dealing with low frequency high risk events will resolve things peaceably most of the time. It’s still dependent on the suspect’s decision making but those are impressive numbers.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
Not everything called SWAT is a highly trained team of professionals. How many 'SWAT' teams are just regular bubba officers all TAC'd out?
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
Short answer- it depends. There are full-time teams and part time/collateral duty teams. Odds are the full-time teams are more likely than not to have their act together. Among the part-time teams… I suspect it’s pretty hit or miss. In order to comply with NTOA standards full time teams need to train 480 hours/year, while part time are supposed to train 192 hours/year as minimums. Whether or not “Backwoods PD/County/Regional SWAT” complies with NTOA standards is a guessing game.
My state is pretty small, with the biggest agency (State Police) having just under 350 sworn members and probably only two other agencies state wide having over 100 sworn. As a result, all teams are part time teams, with most being multi-jurisdictional/regional teams and the only exceptions being those 3 agencies with (well) over 100 sworn. The good part of that is that the 20-40 operators on a regional team are drawn from a much bigger pool of cops rather than a 15-50 person agency fielding their own team. Having said that, some of the regional teams have stronger reputations than others.
Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.
According to the last NTOA SWAT study, out of 254 respondents, agencies that activated their SWAT teams for an incident were eight times more likely to use less-lethal force than lethal force…
https://www.ntoa.org/ntoa-swat-study/
Ohio has 3 full time teams (at least that I know of), one of which is the State Patrol’s and is spread out all over the State. The rest are collateral duty teams and many are multi-jurisdictional teams. Very few that I know of meet the NTOA standards. Not all part time teams are created equal. Cincinnati and Dayton are collateral duty teams.
Formerly known as xpd54.
The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com
Like other facets of policing, I suspect SWAT stuff is regional.
Likely due to our state’s small size, we have a pretty strong state TOA and have regional multi-jurisdictional teams loosely based on counties (though not run by the sheriffs’ offices). While I can’t say what every team does, the teams in my portion of the state largely comply with the 192 hours, give or take a couple hour here and there due to weather, covid outbreaks, etc….
At one point I think NTOA had a tier system for part-time teams- basically barricade/containment teams at the low end and full-service to include HRT at the top. Haven’t heard of the tiers in years, so perhaps that got phased out?
Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.
Still a thing.
Tier 1 is all mission capabilities, including deliberate hostage rescue.
Tier 2 is everything but deliberate hostage rescue.
It goes down to a Tactical Response Team, then a perimeter/containment team.
I pretty much agree with the NTOA standard. I think basically any part-time team believing they’re equipped for deliberate HR is fooling themselves.
https://ntoa.org/pdf/swatstandards.pdf
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