What a neat history lesson!Originally Posted by Hambo
Anytime we can bring up the 221 Fireball, it's a good day.
What a neat history lesson!
Anytime we can bring up the 221 Fireball, it's a good day.
Duplicate.
I use that to form .17 Mach IV
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
I remember back in the day when the Whisper cartridges were wall to wall in the magazines…
Ken
BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”
I'm trying to understand what type of hunting Ian is thinking of here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fQ45sdwqLQ
With Subsonics you have a 100 to 125 yard hunting cartridge at best right?
I get that he wants hearing safe hunting cartridge with suppressor, but if your shooting subsonics you basically have 45 ACP to 45 Super ballistics right, or tiny bit more? With a bit better BC but that's not going to matter worth mentioning with MV of +/- 1000 fps AFAIK.
Just thinking a 45 ACP/Super/Win Mag would be easy to chamber in any 308 bolt gun and give you a wide array of bullets made to function at those velocities, from hardcast to really good hollowpoints.
Or could go with any of the newer 45 cartridges designed for AR15.
I just launched into another churn of reconfiguring (and actually consolidating...) a couple of my ARs. I live in Ohio and while I have not been doing much hunting, a couple of opportunities might open up so I decided to get a 350 Legend barrel and build an upper. In the process of browsing for ammo and/or brass I tripped onto this, I had not known this was a thing:
So instead of 8.6mm ya got a 9mm option.
Most hunting shots are within those distances, particularly pigs and “varmints” at night.
8.6 subs are heavier than what .45 acp is capable of so it’s not an accurate comparison.
8.6 allows you to merely reload and switch to supersonic ammunition when more range or power is required. You can’t do that with the .45 rounds you describe.
It's crazy marketing.
I wasn't old enough to remember the intro of the .308 but a friend of mine showed me one when I was in HS. I thought it was something I had to have. I do remember reading about the intro of the 7mm mag and eventually purchased one around 1970. Back in those days the rifle manufacturers were the driving force in bringing cartridges to market. Winchester didn't design the 308 but introduced it to the civilian market. Remington designed the 7mm Mag. and was partly responsible for the .223 Remington.
Now it seems just about anyone can manufacture a rifle (CNC I guess) but a new cartridge needs a large ammo company like Federal or Hornady behind it to succeed. Or maybe just be adopted by the military. There used to be a lot of free .308 and 5.56 NATO brass at the range.
Looking back on all of this I find myself wondering how some of these new cartridges become a commercial success. I gave my 7mm to my brother after hunting with it a few years. More rifle than I needed for deer. If I needed another medium game rifle I would just buy a .308. I have several 223 Remington rifles. Just not interested in any of the newer cartridges.
My neighbor has a newer Tikka 308 that I've been trying to trade or buy but he won't budge. He's had the rifle for about 5 years. I sighted it in for him when it was new so I know how it shoots. I bet he hasn't fired more than 20 rds in that rifle since.
Last edited by Borderland; 09-24-2023 at 09:39 AM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Well 300 grain in 45 ACP pistol is rare, but have read on handloading forums of people playing with 300 grain bullets few times in it.
But was thinking in bolt action rifle you could load it long, like Cooper liked to do with his 350 Rem Mag.
I know there are loading manual 45 Win Mag loads for 300 grain bullets, have gunsmith buddy that has had LAR Grizzly in 45 Win Mag for decades, figured with the various souped up 45 ACP cartridges like the 451 Detonics, 45 Super, 460 Rowland etc it would be fairly simple to load 300 grain bullets in a rifle.
I didn't see much for 8.6 supersonic load trajectories but from what I read still seemed like 125 to maybe 150 yard range for hunting, I know on a range you can stretch that out a a lot further but in the field trying to make ethical shots on game?
Stuff I'm seeing for Supers is 210TSX @ 1970 which would probably be close to 35 Rem 200 SP for practical trajectory in the field, I know the 9.3x62mm & 338 Federal match pretty well with ether 30-30 or 7.62x39 trajectory wise if you want a cheaper light caliber to do volume of practice with. Like the old recommendation of 375 H&H paired with 30-06 & sometimes 22 Hornet.
And since I know what 338 Federal trajectory is like, pretty sure the 8.6 would be slightly worse for supers since its same bore but less case capacity.
I hadn't really looked at 8.6 before I saw Ian's youtube, I was just hoping it was leading to something like my personal silly interest project.
For my silly, no practical use project, I have looked at the 338 Federal hard, as a modern relatively easy way to get 318 Westley Richard ballistics 250 grain @ nominal 2400 FPS in 28" barrel to play with, because it was Bell's actual favorite cartridge for tough shots on elephant.
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