308 vs. 30-06 Cage Match Thread

[okie john]

Let's dead-horse these two cartridges here instead of at https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....unting-defense

I'll start:

With handloads, the 30-06 will beat the 308 by ~175 fps, but you need to test those loads in the hottest weather you expect to see in the field. For instance, I’m hunting in Texas next month. It will likely be over 100F. We have what passes for a heat wave in Washington this week, so I’m clocking loads to ensure that they’re safe--some powders will take pressures into the stratosphere in summer heat if you're not careful.

I’ve owned and worked with dozens of 308 and 30-06 rifles over the years. I've found two differences that matter:
It's about as easy to find a 0.75 MOA (or better) 308 load as it is to find a 1 MOA 30-06 load.
Some guides will welcome a hunter with a 30-06 but scoff at one with a 308.

I’ve thinned my hunting-rifle herd to a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 that I got from a friend and a Remington Model 700 in 308 that I bought from a big-box store. Optics are identical. When I got the chance to hunt deer on short notice a few years ago, I took the 308 because I was low on 30-06 ammo and I had enough 308 on hand for the train-up and the hunt itself. These days, I choose the 30-06 because my friend died and I miss him.

That’s as good a reason as I can think of to pick one over the other.

Okie John

[flux]

Growing up, the 30-06 was by far the more popular choice. In the last 20 years, this is no longer the case and depending on the area, either is more popular .
Additionally, in sports shooting circles, the 308 is used much more for LR shooting etc.
Now in terms of hunting, as my very good professional hunting(PH) friend says " when the animal tells me the 30-06 hit harder,il let you know... " My first hunting rifle was a 30-06. It did well but it got sold and was later replaced by a 308.
Bear in mind all our hunting was done at 300 yards and closer. If I recall, with our local powders the 30-06 shot about 150fps faster. In terms of versatility, it often gets said that 180gr and heavier the 30-06 shines. 20 years ago this was very very true. But recently when using premium bullets in 30 cal, we found we didn't need the 200gr and 220gr offerings. We found that the additional recoil and longer action and slightly heavier rifles just wasn't needed.
Basically, what ever the 30-06 could kill, the 308 could also kill. Case capacity , 30-06 did shine but in 308 the ultra long and heavy bullets may not be necessary. The speed and trajectory difference just wasn't significant for us. The gap between the 300win mag and 308 was more significant in terms of speed and trajectory.

I used both cup and core and Barnes bullets in my 30-06. My 308 I use 180gr cup and core bullets at 2500fps with great success. If I know I'm going to be hunting larger boned animals I do generally use bonded or monolithics(150-165gr) just as extra insurance. Two years back I came across a bargain Tikka 30-06. I kept it for a short while then sold it simply because I saw no advantage, it's just too close to the 308 in terms of performance. Modern day rifles are really accurate, but we found factory rifles often would shoot better groups out if the 308, though this could be due to less recoil.

Many people coming to Africa believe they need a magnum rifle.A person can hunt everything here from duiker to Eland with a 308 win with 150gr TTSX, or a quality bonded bullet. I can tell you now, that for non DG animals you will be served just fine with a 308 or 30-06 with Good bullets and good shot placement.

[Crazy Dane]

I will champion the .308 up to 165 grain bullets. In the .308, the 150s can achieve the same or slightly better velocities and do it with less powder than the 06. At the 165/168 range they are still mostly equal with the edge going to the 06 but efficiency is still with the .308. When one gets to 180 grain and higher the 30-06 takes the lead and I don't even think there is a load for .308 250 grainers.

Rifles, long action vs short action. Fact, short actions are lighter than long actions. Myth?, short actions are inherently more accurate than long actions. The best group, 5 shots, I ever got with the Ruger .308 was .9 inches at 200 yards. I also shot a .75 inch group, same distance, that day with a Remington 700 in 25-06. I should have bought that rifle...



I have loaded 150gr Nosler ballistic tips to a little over 2900fps using a max charge of Alliant RL15 out of my Ruger M77 with a 20 inch barrel. At my last count I had loaded and shot 1250 rounds of the BT load. I had no trouble keeping them on a 10 inch gong at 600 yards. I wish I had access to longer ranges during that time. When the Accubond came out I switched to them in 150s and had a 100 or so through the rifle. They weren't quite as fast as the BTs but they were accurate.

When I retired the Ruger I went to a H&R Handi rifle* and the one I got happened to be picky with 150 grain Accubonds. It seemed like no matter what I tried I would always get a flyer that ruined what would otherwise be a good group. Talking with a fellow reloader he suggested I try the 165/168 BTs. Shooting those got rid of the ill temper of that particular rifle and I wouldn't consider anything else in it. I also quit chasing the max velocity when I was developing loads for this gun. I am using a middle of the chart of Varget** and keeping velocities around 2600fps even though the book says I have another 175fps to go.

* My dad and son were already shooting the Handi Rifle with 150s.

**I really like the Varget, it being temp stable and meters well. Here at daylight the temps can be below freezing and by midafternoon pushing 90F.

It's not difficult to switch between the Ballistic Tips and the Accubonds in the same weights.

[farscott]

I am a short action fan, still having rifles in .243 Win and 7mm-08. When I was downsizing calibers, I could not bear getting rid of the restocked M1 Garand and my stash of M2 ball, so I unloaded the 700 in .308.

[OlongJohnson]

Rifles, long action vs short action. Fact, short actions are lighter than long actions. Myth?, short actions are inherently more accurate than long actions.

If you shoot Tikkas, they're likely to be more accurate than most rifles and there's no signficant difference in weight or the factors that people use to argue SA rifles are inherently likely to be more accurate than LA.

Tikka magazines and bolt stops let you Mr. Potatohead your way to a Goldilocks action if you want to run long bullets in a SA cartridge, or an in-between cartridge like 6mm Remington or .284 Winchester.

----------------

There's an old saying among photojournalists about camera settings (going back to the manual era): "F8 and be there."

I predict this thread will end up something like, ".308 and be there."

[Oldherkpilot]

Put me down for 30-06. I use 150 gr Nosler BTs in .308 and 165gr BTs in my '06 loads. I have more .308s than '06s but the .308s are mere acquaintances while the '06s are old friends. But the real reason I'm choosing 30-06 is because it was my Search & Rescue ID number for almost my entire career. They forced me to change it when the "acceptable criteria" changed. At the next semi annual review, it took me three tries to remember the new number. I told the fellow to switch it back, I'm not getting left in the fucking desert because you people don't like my number. He saw my point and changed it back.

[okie john]

My 308 I use 180gr cup and core bullets at 2500fps with great success.

I've done a lot of reading about early smokeless and cordite cartridges.

The 9.3x62, 404 Jefferey, and most of the double-rifle cartridges claimed right around 2,150 fps with heavy-for-caliber bullets. The 30-30 Winchester was a little faster. The 7x57/175, 425 Westley Richards, and 416 Rigby/400 claimed 2,350 to 2,400 fps, and the 375 H&H claimed 2,550 with a 300-grain bullet. A few of those claimed 2,700 with lighter bullets but nobody had chronographs back then, so most of those loads probably weren't actually going that fast. I'd bet that most of those loads barely hit 2,600 fps, which puts them right in line with the load you mention.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


Okie John

[Hambo]

These days, I choose the 30-06 because my friend died and I miss him.

That’s as good a reason as I can think of to pick one over the other.

Okie John

That's a damn good reason. I use the ultimate short action: a single shot. I'd be happy with either .308 or .30-06, but I got a deal on a 24" .308 barrel. Like you, I read a lot about old rifles and calibers, so as long as I'm at 2400fps I'm happy.

[Paul D]

I like the 30-06 more. I think the .308 is just fine. What makes the .308 more appealing these days are guns like the Sig Sauer Cross which weighs just 6.5 lbs (Tikka T3x lite weighs 6.2 lbs). You will have to be content with a 16 inch barrel. On the other hand, doing a long stalk climbing up and down hills with it folded in a backpack vs slung over my shoulder is also attractive.

[dsa]

For hand loading I prefer the .308 simply because it is a short action. However, every rural gas station I have ever been to in Idaho over the past 17 years has .30-06 factory ammo for sale. I have never not seen it on a shelf in places like Lowell, Stites, Weiser and Blackfoot to name a few. There is a Tikka in .30-06 in the safe for this very reason.