Stoeger suspended from USPSA

[Mike Pipes]

For me it's not the time plus scoring, per say, it's the extreme penalty for points down that IDPA is applying. It was far fetched when it was 1/2 second per point. 1 second per point is ludicrous, and completely negates any "practicality" to the sport. I'd be down with a .20 second per point rule, which essentially makes everything a 5 hit factor if my math-prior-to-second-cup-coffee computes correctly.

I remember when Joyce Wilson was justifying the move to 1 second down, her reasoning was we have to be accountable each shot fired. My response was why isn't there a penalty for completely missing the target, so long as the shot is made up? That miss is far more dangerous than hitting an intended target in the "down 3" region.

There was a 3-gun match director that proposed creating a pistol sport using 3-gun timing. Targets are either neutralized or not. I've seen a few variation of this, (one A hit, or any two hits to neutralize, another one A hit or two hits with one of the two being C or higher, etc...), but that intrigues me.

YMMV.

That was the Paladin scoring system promoted by rick miller back when I had hair..........CYA Mike

[Jim Watson]

There are a couple of wildcat matches in my theatre of operations that require two A or B hits to neutralize.
Darned tough versus "a fast C is better than a slow A" logic.

When I joined IDPA in 1997, they were at .5 sec per point down. I read that they started at .3 sec/point but I never saw it.

The only special penalty I know of for errant shots is that if you hit a Non Threat, you are not eligible for Low Points Down recognition.

Penalizing made up misses would require reliable tracking of shots fired vs hits. Something you might do in a tough training environment but difficult in a sporting event.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Frankly I don't care. I like the trigger time in both. There's a target, I get to it at my speed and shoot it. I want to hit it well that would be reasonable in SD if life ever came to that. Watching folks do the UPSPA track meet , I can't. When IDPA went to fault line instead of coverage because of gamer outrage over subjective calls - Yawn to me. If I ever fight, I will use cover, concealment, hiding behind my rounds - whatever works from my experiences at the NTI and various FOF training. My guns are close to carry - my concession to RDS is that it can be done on a carry gun without much problem and my old eyes now.

This may be old man yelling at a cloud as I certainly can't win at my speed. I can come in reasonably well just looking at hits, although rusty with my 1911 recently. At the last match, a retired officer shot at a reasonable speed, IMHO, and moved between targets at a reasonable, deliberate pace - and got all A's.

It was then told that faster 'C's were better, but the SO said he was joshing a bit. Seeing fast Mikes - not a good thing.

Anyway, practicality between the two based on some algebra - can't get excited about it. I don't do IDPA match as it is an hour and a half drive now. Although, there is ICORE there also and I might try.

If I get a chance and the weather clears, I will shoot steel with a fiber optic Buckmark. I regard that as my practical practice if my hands go!

Organization politics - since monkeys chattered at each other for dominance, 3 million years ago - what else is new. I pays my $17 bucks ( $3 off for members at our club) and shoot. Better deal than the indoor range.

[feudist]

For me it's not the time plus scoring, per say, it's the extreme penalty for points down that IDPA is applying. It was far fetched when it was 1/2 second per point. 1 second per point is ludicrous, and completely negates any "practicality" to the sport. I'd be down with a .20 second per point rule, which essentially makes everything a 5 hit factor if my math-prior-to-second-cup-coffee computes correctly.

I remember when Joyce Wilson was justifying the move to 1 second down, her reasoning was we have to be accountable each shot fired. My response was why isn't there a penalty for completely missing the target, so long as the shot is made up? That miss is far more dangerous than hitting an intended target in the "down 3" region.

There was a 3-gun match director that proposed creating a pistol sport using 3-gun timing. Targets are either neutralized or not. I've seen a few variation of this, (one A hit, or any two hits to neutralize, another one A hit or two hits with one of the two being C or higher, etc...), but that intrigues me.

YMMV.

I don't follow IDPA closely but that truly made no sense. When I first heard of the rule, I assumed it was what you're advocating: an extreme miss penalty which seems like a fine idea.

[Clusterfrack]

Having fixed time penalty for points down makes all stages have effectively fixed hit factors. That's boring. HF scoring requires optimizing accuracy and speed under a wide range of challenges. Fixed time also doesn't have shifting importance of all the non-shooting stuff (reloads, movement, etc).

Compare the strategy required for a 8 round short course (see pic) with two activators (HF > 7 for a competitive run) to a big field course with lots of movement and HF < 3 where dropping more than few Cs means a low score. For a competitive run on the short course, both steel must be shot first, and a miss on steel could be catastrophic. Shooting the far partial in between the steel was a hero move, and no one who tried it succeeded. Time plus scoring simply can't create this range of challenges.

Edit: HF scoring makes the size of the 'target' change depending on the situation. Sometimes only As are acceptable, and sometimes Cs are ok too.

2 hits to neutralize is why I don't shoot 3-gun. (Well, that and not caring about reloading shotguns quickly).

For me it's not the time plus scoring, per say, it's the extreme penalty for points down that IDPA is applying. It was far fetched when it was 1/2 second per point. 1 second per point is ludicrous, and completely negates any "practicality" to the sport. I'd be down with a .20 second per point rule, which essentially makes everything a 5 hit factor if my math-prior-to-second-cup-coffee computes correctly.

I remember when Joyce Wilson was justifying the move to 1 second down, her reasoning was we have to be accountable each shot fired. My response was why isn't there a penalty for completely missing the target, so long as the shot is made up? That miss is far more dangerous than hitting an intended target in the "down 3" region.

There was a 3-gun match director that proposed creating a pistol sport using 3-gun timing. Targets are either neutralized or not. I've seen a few variation of this, (one A hit, or any two hits to neutralize, another one A hit or two hits with one of the two being C or higher, etc...), but that intrigues me.

[45dotACP]

It’s not the equipment rules that keep me away from IDPA, it’s time-plus scoring.

Hit Factor scoring is my most basic requirement for practical pistol shooting competitions.

It's a real shame too, because the lower round count stages you see in IDPA give it potential to be a really interesting challenge if you use HF scoring.

It aggravates me to no end to go to a USPSA match and just have arrays of 4 targets stacked everywhere and for every stage but the classifier to be a charmless 32 round nightmare.

Plus IDPA is one of the last real places to shoot a stock service revolver and not feel like you're holding the whole squad up or thay you're glacially slow.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Jim Watson]

Maybe ol Ben will read the boards and come up with a match that everybody likes, now he is booted out of USPSA.

I don't do IDPA match as it is an hour and a half drive now.

Wow. I am 1:20 from my CLOSEST match, the Wednesday night USPSA. Saturday IDPA is 1:40 to 2:20 travel time. This Saturday's outlaw shoot will be about 1:50. I have to go, I won the drawing for a free entry last time.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I need to stay closer to home for some caretaking responsibilities. Only like to be at most an half hour away. Such that I don't go to Givens anymore. Sigh.

[Moylan]

Wow. I am 1:20 from my CLOSEST match, the Wednesday night USPSA. Saturday IDPA is 1:40 to 2:20 travel time. This Saturday's outlaw shoot will be about 1:50. I have to go, I won the drawing for a free entry last time.

I'm in the same boat. The clubs I've gotten to have been 1:15 and 1:30 and the one I can get to most often is 1:40 on Thursday evenings. But considering the traffic I have to leave myself a good 2:00 for the journey outbound. Heading home at 10:00pm I can hit the 1:40 mark. It'd be so nice to have a match within 20 minutes or so of home!

[Mike Pipes]

I THINK WE HAVE DERAILED THIS THANG