Stoeger suspended from USPSA

[JCN]

But yeah go ahead and attempt to silence him.

I'm sure that's possibly the biggest way to ensure he will continue to be a pain in the ass for the USPSA BOD for years to come.

This was a really bad move for them.

I won't be a part of any organization that has such sensitive and butt hurt leadership. If you're the boss, you've got to have some thick skin. Can't be a good leader if you're always crying about the unfairness of the criticism that you gotta eat.

I guess there’s always the question of how far do you go with that.

Do you remove yourself from the Republican / Democrat establishment because of the leader?

What if you’re military and the “leaders” change with the political climate…

But you’re in it for your buddies on the ground and just kind of ignore the BS at the top.

I like the community, I ignore the leadership. I’d prefer better leadership but seeing the state of American government, I don’t have much expectation for USPSA.

[fatdog]

This was a really bad move for them....

Essential PR truth, any time you attempt to silence your critics just for being critical and hide behind "for the good of the institution" or "for the good of the sport" or "their conduct (if it is only their speech) is damaging to us" etc. you have violated a fundamental rule of public relations.

These ignorant mopes just threw the boomerang.

It is obvious there isn't a real PR or brand/image professional among them, or one they are consulting.

[JCN]

I think more powerful than withdrawing from the organization, people would be better served STAYING in the organization and having voting campaigns on issues to bolster numbers.

Removing your voice isn’t going to change the organization.

Write to the BOD and tell them you’re staying instead of leaving, but you’re going to vote to oust poor behavior.

[45dotACP]

I guess there’s always the question of how far do you go with that.

Do you remove yourself from the Republican / Democrat establishment because of the leader?

What if you’re military and the “leaders” change with the political climate…

But you’re in it for your buddies on the ground and just kind of ignore the BS at the top.

I like the community, I ignore the leadership. I’d prefer better leadership but seeing the state of American government, I don’t have much expectation for USPSA.

Well you go as far as you can tolerate I suppose.

I can't really extricate myself from politics in America. If this country goes down in flames, then we peasants in steerage go with it.

At the end of the day, USPSA is just a hobby, and I'm under no obligation to pay an organization if I see them partaking in anything I deem to be nonsense. The whole ship can burn and I won't care if I'm not on board.

I can just go shoot outlaw matches and attend the practical pistol practice sessions a nearby range puts on with the help of a local GM.

I might even shoot a few local matches just to see how my U class self compares with the local heat.

But I was never going to be a top level guy.

Maybe you will given your passion and drive, but for me it was always about learning to move with a gun, how to use a holster correctly, and having a place to socialize and practice among like minded men and women.

I can do that without financially supporting a bunch of nincompoops.

I do still have my expectations, but maybe I'm just a 32 year old boomer.



Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[JCN]

@45dotACP totally valid.

Investing time in an organization’s health is something a lot of us (including myself) just don’t care that much to do.

I’m in it for my local club, my friends and my own self-challenge enjoyment.

For me it looks a little different.

If I have the choice of attending a poorly run local outlaw match versus the local USPSA club that puts on a great match, I’ll support the USPSA club with dollars and presence.

It still supports the overall USPSA organization, but my goal is to support the local club.

Even if I don’t pay personal membership dues, I’m still supporting the club and USPSA in general.

If that makes sense.

If my local club decided to dis-affiliate, I would happily still run local matches and not have anything to do with USPSA.

But I’m going to support the local people and ignore the politics and pissing as much as possible.

[BWT]

I like the community, I ignore the leadership. I’d prefer better leadership but seeing the state of American government, I don’t have much expectation for USPSA.

You get out of here with these sensical thoughtful answers.

I agree. I’m not a huge fan of how this is going. I just can only have so much outrage, and I need to get better at shooting. So I stay (and I need to get back to a match).

Honestly, I’m second thinking my NRA membership and re-joining the NRA-ILA given joshs’s contributions alone. I’ve made contributions there specifically for this purpose.

I need to re-join pf.

I dunno - I’ve kind of come to the same conclusion. Taking our ball and going home isn’t going to solve it.

Also, Ben does enjoy this kind of thing. He started a separate forum at one point called the doodie project. That apparently was shut down in some other spat that I don’t know or care about.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...ned-to-doodie/

I do think we need whistleblowers in orgs, but I also think Ben starts this crap. And I own his mini targets, several of his books, etc. I regret not taking a class when he was in the county over a few years back but I think we’d just had a baby or something and weekends were the wife’s break.

Anyway. Sucks - hopefully he gets back.

ETA: Renewed my PF account.

[jetfire]

Honestly, the thing that USPSA is doing right now that's genuinely dumb is they're letting Ben control the narrative on this one

[Zincwarrior]

I would go so far as to say that this is the result that Stoeger wanted and expected.

USPSA is a “corporation.”

Doesn’t matter who they “serve,” a corporation primarily looks out for its own self interests, unfortunately.

The primary purpose of bureaucracy is to increase the strength of the bureaucracy.

[feudist]

The primary purpose of bureaucracy is to increase the strength of the bureaucracy.

That's a Universal Law.

[JRV]

I would go so far as to say that this is the result that Stoeger wanted and expected.

USPSA is a “corporation.”

Doesn’t matter who they “serve,” a corporation primarily looks out for its own self interests, unfortunately.

That only applies to a for-profit corporation, because the D&O’s duties are to exercise care and loyalty to maximize returns to investors. USPSA is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, so the duty of care charged to the D&Os of the corporation is really focused on two things: furthering the purposes of the organization and maintaining compliance with non-profit regulations.

The competitive integrity issues are not a probably not a violation of those duties, just issues of personal character. Arguably, that goes the same for decisions to suspend members because of their call-outs.

- The lack of transparent accounting of Board expenses and travel is a potential problem, especially when they have driven the organization into a fiscal deficit in the past financial year (membership and activity fee income have not changed from prior years).

- Folks receiving caches of ammo from manufacturers for their own personal use is a potential problem, because that is self-interested dealing that does not further the organization’s or membership’s interests.

- Spending the organization’s money(in a deficit) on a witch-hunt of a “leaking” member, when emails and public records show that there was no leak and they knew it, is a potential problem.

- Finally, all of the documentation of leadership trying to find ways to skirt, actively violating, and putting members in a position to violate Colorado law would probably place the organization’s non-profit status at risk if the wrong anti-gun politician/attorney got involved.

I personally don’t have a problem with people staying in USPSA because their local matches are well-run. I can’t give USPSA any more of my own money until it starts acting like a non-profit again.

Our local “top” GM started an outlaw match under multi-gun scoring rules as an alternative, and it is exceptionally good. The same clubs and most of the same shooters locally participate in IDPA, which helps support our local ranges. There are also alternative venues for competition, like bullseye and the clay sports, that are in desperate need of young blood and provide plenty of translatable skills for practical shooting.