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Thread: Stoeger suspended from USPSA

  1. #1

    Stoeger suspended from USPSA

    Posted a suspension letter on his FB. I am sure that he has been a pain in their ass for years and I don't think he has gone the right way about how to do it at times. I am not privy to any particular details but I don't know how constructive his criticism has been. At the same time he wasn't wrong about many things. What upsets me the most is that BOD suspended a dude for simply speaking his mind against their leadership style and decisions.
    I have 13 months left till my next renewal. If this stuff doesn't get resolved the way I think it should, I will consider not renewing and just shooting as a non-member.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    I just got a renewal notice. Considering dropping it. Sad since I’ve been a member since ‘93. They’ve become quite the train wreck over the years.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Posted a suspension letter on his FB. I am sure that he has been a pain in their ass for years and I don't think he has gone the right way about how to do it at times. I am not privy to any particular details but I don't know how constructive his criticism has been. At the same time he wasn't wrong about many things. What upsets me the most is that BOD suspended a dude for simply speaking his mind against their leadership style and decisions.
    I have 13 months left till my next renewal. If this stuff doesn't get resolved the way I think it should, I will consider not renewing and just shooting as a non-member.
    Agreed and they have suspended others for reasons that I don't think are justifiable

  4. #4
    Exactly what did the letter from USPSA say?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Exactly what did the letter from USPSA say?
    This, non Facebook users want to know.

  6. #6
    Member TCFD273's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Exactly what did the letter from USPSA say?
    All the post shows




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  7. #7
    I think that he's been an outspoken critic for a long time. But he's an outspoken critic who is probably the best USPSA shooter in the country on any given day, runs more than one USPSA centric business, promotes the sport, and genuinely cares about the fairness of the competition and the way it's conducted.

    My understanding is...

    When he sees internal emails where BOD members imply membership is stupid, and sees them hosting a nationals in a place with a magazine ban and telling members not to worry about it... he makes it public. Because he cares about the sport. Perhaps he isn't very cooth, but he isnt wrong.

    If the organization wants to be taken seriously and become a respected sport (ala ufc) then they need to make smarter choices. Like not hosting nationals where there is a magazine ban. Like not saying its okay without consulting lawyers. Like not saying there is no risk to the organization and we dont care what happens.

    My USPSA lapsed during covid and I havent renewed because I havent been able to get to matches. But something needs to change. Even with AIWB made specifically okay I get issues at my closest range, and I'm tired of that. Then the leadership allows blatent cheating from Tony Cowden and bans it's best competitor because he's blunt and points out their incompetence?

    I've got to much going on lately to care about USPSA imploding. Let me know when another organization becomes IPSC America.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter JRV's Avatar
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    The criticism levied towards the Board, the Prez, and DME has been pretty thick in the past year:

    - Board was borderline nonreactive to the Stage Zero documented cheating issues

    - One of the Board members was documented getting his son a second bite at the chrono apple at a major

    - Cameogate was a fiasco from day one, between the blatant misstatements of Colorado law, to the public removal of Infinity as a match sponsor, to the Board demanding that competitors sign an affidavit confirming knowledge and compliance with the law, to the witch-hunt to find the “leaking” member when it turned out that (1) the information in question was publicized months before and (2) the Board itself was leaking comms and letters to “friendly” propagandist social media accounts

    - Board members documenting their own collections of manufacturer-supplied ammo in their garages

    - USPSA annual financials demonstrate a year-over-year loss despite solid membership income, with no itemization or accounting of Board expenses or travel

    - the Board attempting to restructure the Presidency specifically around (1) keeping guys like Matt Hopkins from being able to run and (2) vesting more executive powers in a Board-selected executive manager position

    It’s devolved into more personal spats, with Ben making a deal about a certain higher-up’s history with domestic violence and another Board member’s history with killing dogs at his day job, and now it turns out that DME was stalking and trying to meet the owner of a particular social media account face-to-face… at this point, screw USPSA. I say that as someone who loves USPSA.

    I’m not renewing. I’ve asked to terminate my membership. Members and shooters pay their salaries, and to see a year’s worth of documented mismanagement, ignorance of competitive integrity issues, reckless behavior towards the membership and the law, the wielding of petty power to target critics—it’s a shame. These guys have made good money being buffoons. I’ll shoot local outlaws, IDPA matches, and other shooting sports at my local ranges before giving those nerds another penny’s worth of activity fees.
    Whenever you're sad, just remember: every day is one day closer to your next plate of nachos.

  9. #9
    Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRV View Post
    The criticism levied towards the Board, the Prez, and DME has been pretty thick in the past year:

    - Board was borderline nonreactive to the Stage Zero documented cheating issues

    - One of the Board members was documented getting his son a second bite at the chrono apple at a major

    - Cameogate was a fiasco from day one, between the blatant misstatements of Colorado law, to the public removal of Infinity as a match sponsor, to the Board demanding that competitors sign an affidavit confirming knowledge and compliance with the law, to the witch-hunt to find the “leaking” member when it turned out that (1) the information in question was publicized months before and (2) the Board itself was leaking comms and letters to “friendly” propagandist social media accounts

    - Board members documenting their own collections of manufacturer-supplied ammo in their garages

    - USPSA annual financials demonstrate a year-over-year loss despite solid membership income, with no itemization or accounting of Board expenses or travel

    - the Board attempting to restructure the Presidency specifically around (1) keeping guys like Matt Hopkins from being able to run and (2) vesting more executive powers in a Board-selected executive manager position

    It’s devolved into more personal spats, with Ben making a deal about a certain higher-up’s history with domestic violence and another Board member’s history with killing dogs at his day job, and now it turns out that DME was stalking and trying to meet the owner of a particular social media account face-to-face… at this point, screw USPSA. I say that as someone who loves USPSA.

    I’m not renewing. I’ve asked to terminate my membership. Members and shooters pay their salaries, and to see a year’s worth of documented mismanagement, ignorance of competitive integrity issues, reckless behavior towards the membership and the law, the wielding of petty power to target critics—it’s a shame. These guys have made good money being buffoons. I’ll shoot local outlaws, IDPA matches, and other shooting sports at my local ranges before giving those nerds another penny’s worth of activity fees.
    This. Right. Here.


    I couldn’t have put it better myself on any of it. Yes, Ben is abrasive and a troll at times, but he’s also absolutely correct on all the shenanigans the organization has been up to. The org somehow can’t ban blatant cheaters, but they’ll sure as hell ban Ben as well as others that are critical of the board and/or those who show the evidence of cheating.

    I won’t be renewing my membership until the org apologizes for the crap they’ve mismanaged, reinstated certain members, and/or most of the board is replaced. At this point just about all of the board needs to be replaced, so it’s going to take a minute. In the meantime I’ll shoot locals and go try my hand at IDPA. These clowns are somehow spending themselves into oblivion and can’t manage their way out of a wet paper bag. I can’t condone such behavior, therefore I’ll go somewhere else. IDPA seems to be the next best thing and there’s no shortage of locals around me here.

  10. #10
    I'll have to get familiar with the complaint the led to Mr. Stoeger's suspension by the board...is there anything specific, which would elaborate on the cited "activity bringing discredit to the corporation"?

    I'm scheduled to renew in September. I haven't shot a match since last October due to:reasons. The ongoing shenanigans described online do bother me a bit though, but other than my vote, I have zero impact on anything.

    What alternatives are there? For me, in the greater Sarasota area, not much. There's a local outlaw indoor match weekly on Monday's I was going to start, to knock the rust off. I can get to matches in Ruskin FL, but these are/were USPSA. Frostproof is probably a 90 minute drive one way, a hefty time and gas investment for 140 rounds of shooting in six hours of a match. Maybe I will see what IDPA is like, and compare. Or go find another Steel Challenge match; the one I shot a few years ago was a lot of fun.

    Guess I'll wait and see how this shakes out before paying for another year of membership.

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