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Thread: Stoeger suspended from USPSA

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I’m a member, and I don’t want to “burn it down”. I want a BoD and President who don’t act like petty tyrants, ban people because someone else posted on social media, knowingly ask members to break laws and assume responsibility, and I sure as fuck don’t want cheaters to get a pass. What is the point of a sport if there’s no competitive equity?

    Loud enough?
    Well, you have a new president. Not sure how many of the BOD are new as I'm not that familiar with the old ones. I was looking at the website and I thought most of the names were new, but I don't know who was on during any of this.

    I don't really see cheating on a classifier at a club match as a competitive equity issue (if that is what you are referring to). Holding a higher card than your ability just ensures you never win, right?

    I do think they have banned people for that in the past, I think it was someone else that got outed on Stoeger's podcast, in fact.

    Is it a reasonable response is to dig in to the personal lives of the USPSA BOD and employees, and post it all over the place?

    Have you talked to your area director about this?

  2. #262
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    Double post, and edit because I misread the hit factor info from USPSA.
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  3. #263
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    I don't really see cheating on a classifier at a club match as a competitive equity issue (if that is what you are referring to).
    I'm not sure, but I believe even scores from classifiers at level 1 matches could affect the "high hit factor," but I'll be damned if I can find an explanation of how.it's actually calculated.

    If they are driving up the average for the "top shooters," that does impact other members who are honestly shooting the classifiers.

    Further, anyone who will cheat, and help others cheat, is the type of person who would hurt other shooters to cheat. Its happened before:
    https://www.gunnuts.net/2014/06/18/r...g-association/

    Finally, the classification system becomes meaningless, if we don't enforce the integrity of the system. Hell, why even have the sport if we don't care about cheating? Might as well just go to the range, without a timer, and shoot at a target without scoring it, and call it good. If we don't care about preventing cheating, what's the point of running a timer, scoring/pasting, and recording the data?
    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  4. #264
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    Have you talked to your area director about this?
    Yep. No joy.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Yep. No joy.
    I don't know what to tell you. I watched some of Stoeger's recent stuff, like the Matt vs USPSA establishment video.

    To me trying to change out the board seems like an answer, and a reasonable thing to do. If they really had people lined up to run for all of the board positions they should have just focused on that.

    I wouldn't want to do it, and knowing that a bunch of internet sleuths are going to be digging in to my personal life and past and posting it all over the web doesn't make it any more attractive.

    Getting rid of Foley has to be a step in the right direction, although since Stoeger essentially put Foley there in the first place, it doesn't make me that enthusiastic about whoever he wants on the board either. I don't know if Stoeger misjudged Foley, or if it was just a troll to see if he could get someone into the position. Maybe he knew what a timebomb Foley would be and just thought it would be funny. Sort of seems like it from Matt vs the establishment video.

    I think USPSA can be improved, I don't think quitting helps. I'm not finding any sympathy for the players in this controversy on either side.

  6. #266
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I agree. The USPSA organization is seriously messed up, and quitting won't help.

    A few responses to your other comments:
    A Ben S conspiracy to plant Foley as a presidential time bomb is a QAnon-level fantasy. Foley seemed like a good choice for president at the time, and like many sociopaths is good at hiding his true nature. The fault lies with Foley, but the $1M question is why the BoD didn't fire him much sooner? Why? Because they liked what he was doing.

    Good qualified people are willing to serve on the BoD, despite the drama. Matt Hopkins for example. Hopefully, there will be a steady turnover of the old BoD and the organization can return to focusing on competitive practical shooting and upholding its nonprofit charter.

    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    I don't know what to tell you. I watched some of Stoeger's recent stuff, like the Matt vs USPSA establishment video.

    To me trying to change out the board seems like an answer, and a reasonable thing to do. If they really had people lined up to run for all of the board positions they should have just focused on that.

    I wouldn't want to do it, and knowing that a bunch of internet sleuths are going to be digging in to my personal life and past and posting it all over the web doesn't make it any more attractive.

    Getting rid of Foley has to be a step in the right direction, although since Stoeger essentially put Foley there in the first place, it doesn't make me that enthusiastic about whoever he wants on the board either. I don't know if Stoeger misjudged Foley, or if it was just a troll to see if he could get someone into the position. Maybe he knew what a timebomb Foley would be and just thought it would be funny. Sort of seems like it from Matt vs the establishment video.

    I think USPSA can be improved, I don't think quitting helps. I'm not finding any sympathy for the players in this controversy on either side.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  7. #267
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I’m a member, and I don’t want to “burn it down”. I want a BoD and President who don’t act like petty tyrants, ban people because someone else posted on social media, knowingly ask members to break laws and assume responsibility, and I sure as fuck don’t want cheaters to get a pass. What is the point of a sport if there’s no competitive equity?

    Loud enough?
    I am just a no name hack but have to agree. I want a concise rulebook that doesn't change the division specifications every three months, and "knowingly ask members to break laws and assume responsibility, and I sure as fuck don’t want cheaters to get a pass." These appear to be minimum level non negotiable items that should be...no brainers.

  8. #268
    Do you guys that are defending him actually believe that Ben cares about the wellbeing of USPSA as an org?
    Brand Manager for Taurus USA

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by jetfire View Post
    Do you guys that are defending him actually believe that Ben cares about the wellbeing of USPSA as an org?
    If not changing the way the sport is run, what is his motivation?

  10. #270
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    If not changing the way the sport is run, what is his motivation?
    You can want something to change while not caring about it’s health and viability.

    Think of every self centered ex-girlfriend that thought YOU were the entire problem…

    Calling everyone a stupid, incompetent asshole is kind of a Karen move.
    Currently I’m still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

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