Page 10 of 23 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 230

Thread: Stoeger suspended from USPSA

  1. #91
    Despite all the shenanigans, I decided to re-up again. Iíd like to be part of the solution. If all I can do is vote and shoot local matches, thatís ok with me. The general framework of USPSA competition shooting is worth saving, but unfortunately assholes gonna asshole.

  2. #92
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019

    Interesting

    It seemed that he really didnít want to get booted from USPSA.

    He really seemed sad about it.

    Currently Iím still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

  3. #93
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    My membership hasn't been active since the pandemic and I havent been active in listening to podcasts/drama abour the sport, but as a member of the Hoi Polloi, it sounds like the BOD is just trying to smother people who got ahold of and published corporate documents/memos.

    But they haven't plugged the leak(s)? This will continue.

    It sounds like there's a person or several people within USPSA who is/are uncomfortable with how the company is being run.

    It sounds like a LOT of stuff the USPSA board thinks is private is very much not.

    Somehow I don't think Ben is the one who leaked any of this shit...but he does give it a platform.

    It sounds like BOD wants to drop the hammer on dudes who disagree with or troll them...but Ben has literally always been a troll and a bit of an asshole. Hardly an existential threat to USPSA though.

    So what changed? Why the pearl clutching about Ben "bringing disrepute to the company" when that's literally his thing?

    Money.

    More power, more influence. USPSA is significantly larger and wealthier with more members and influence and sponsors than in the past when Ben started on his BS like wearing his chanclas to awards ceremonies and crushing beer cans with his trophies.

    Barely competent leadership with sensitive egos and mediocre planning with no PR skills or self awareness was fine in the past...but USPSA is a different beast now and the more money you make at your job, the more desperate (and stupid) you become when anyone threatens to derail your gravy train.


    The whole debacle in Colorado that seemed to draw the ire of a large anti-gun org for holding a competition in a state thay had mag bans...eh I don't know that the leadership of the organization needed to gamble on the enforcement of a law they would be encouraging their competitors to break.

    Especially when there are other facilities that can host such a competition and they could always put Lo Cap Nats in the ban state (is Lo Cap Nats still a thing? Did they disband L10, SS, Revo and Prod yet? )

    It also looks like a PR disaster for a board member driving 5 hours to either high noon it or have a "man to man" talk at a Starbucks with an internet troll who got a hold of his criminal history.

    Yeah, that'll go well.

    Again, not professional from the standpoint of someone who runs a large business, but par for the course for an enthusiast who gets paid to help run the corporation of his favorite sport.

    From the perspective of a layperson however, that's a bad look. Both the criminal history/suspicion of domestic violence part and also the "I demand satisfaction" part when it comes to dealing with detractors.

    As an aside, domestic violence is pretty strongly associated with a proclivity towards random violence so from the perspective of the Instagram guy, I wouldn't have met this dude for a "man to man" talk either on the basis of that failing the stupid test. Don't do stupid things like meet someone you pissed off who you reasonably believe may be armed and possibly of violent disposition.

    I do have my doubts about how much to believe of that however, given that a DV conviction disqualifies gun ownership, but that gets to the REAL problem USPSA has

    Issues with scheduling a nationals match in a ban state aside or a possible coffee shop showdown with a troll aside, USPSA BOD seems content to not give a meaningful or convincing rationale for any of these things.

    Not so much as a "I tried to reach the troll guy by email or contact him via lawyer to discuss his slander" about the Starbucks showdown or a "Well we got this OK'd by Colorado legislature and Frostproof wasn't available and no other facilities exist that are large enough."

    Speculation can and will run rampant if you don't think people your business is meant to serve, deserve any explanation from leadership, and you just try to lead on the merits of your authority alone.

    Tl;Dr: USPSA isn't a tiny fiefdom anymore and cannot be governed or treated as such.

    Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    It seemed that he really didnít want to get booted from USPSA.

    He really seemed sad about it.

    That doesn't surprise me at all.

  5. #95
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    I wasnít surprised when the USPSA president salary was published.

    Does anyone know if thereís financial compensation to become AD?

    I (probably mistakenly) thought it was volunteer or nominally paid.

    I think itís tough to have elections and vote well meaning people into positions of corporate leadership without any corporate experience or framework.

    Think of AOCÖ you get unprofessional behavior when you elect people without professional training.
    Currently Iím still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

  6. #96
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    I think itís tough to have elections and vote well meaning people into positions of corporate leadership without any corporate experience or framework.

    Think of AOCÖ you get unprofessional behavior when you elect people without professional training.
    this is the main problem with these kinds of things. If people had actually valid and valuable experience managing corporate things they would be out there managing corporate things, not running shooting clubs.

    As to Ben's sadness, I'm sure that's at least partially based on the threat to his income as anything else. Whether he only shot 2 matches this year or 10, his career is dependent on the organization, and while his banning may be bullshit I can't imagine how anyone would think you can go on criticizing the org like that for that long and not have consequences.
    Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.

  7. #97
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    this is the main problem with these kinds of things. If people had actually valid and valuable experience managing corporate things they would be out there managing corporate things, not running shooting clubs.

    As to Ben's sadness, I'm sure that's at least partially based on the threat to his income as anything else. Whether he only shot 2 matches this year or 10, his career is dependent on the organization, and while his banning may be bullshit I can't imagine how anyone would think you can go on criticizing the org like that for that long and not have consequences.
    If I could like this more than once. All of it.

    And itís not just that he criticizes it, itís HOW he criticizes it.

    You canít keep calling people fucking idiots for decades and expect them to be kind to you, no matter what your resume is.

    It also goes back to ďbelling the cat.Ē Itís all fine and good to be outraged at incompetence or what have you in the board. But by and large these are well meaning people who really have given a lot of their time and energy to trying to make their clubs healthy and strong. I know thatís the case with our AD who is an exceptionally good guy.

    The types of people who would be awesomer, arenít going to donate their time to do the job.
    Currently Iím still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

  8. #98
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Wokelandia
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    this is the main problem with these kinds of things. If people had actually valid and valuable experience managing corporate things they would be out there managing corporate things, not running shooting clubs.

    As to Ben's sadness, I'm sure that's at least partially based on the threat to his income as anything else. Whether he only shot 2 matches this year or 10, his career is dependent on the organization, and while his banning may be bullshit I can't imagine how anyone would think you can go on criticizing the org like that for that long and not have consequences.
    I agree, and it makes me respect Ben even more. He has worked hard to be one of the best pistol shooters in world history, and is an excellent instructor. He's also a successful entrepreneur. That he would risk so much shows how much he cares about USPSA as and organization and a sport.

    Any healthy nonprofit organization should welcome criticism. Nothing he's said has been lacking evidence. The BoD is just pissed that he keeps calling them out on their malfeasance and croneyism.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  9. #99
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Wokelandia
    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    If I could like this more than once. All of it.

    And itís not just that he criticizes it, itís HOW he criticizes it.

    You canít keep calling people fucking idiots for decades and expect them to be kind to you, no matter what your resume is.

    It also goes back to ďbelling the cat.Ē Itís all fine and good to be outraged at incompetence or what have you in the board. But by and large these are well meaning people who really have given a lot of their time and energy to trying to make their clubs healthy and strong. I know thatís the case with our AD who is an exceptionally good guy.

    The types of people who would be awesomer, arenít going to donate their time to do the job.
    I thought so as well, but not any more. I think the BoD is packed with selfish Fudds who want USPSA to be their private and exclusive club where they get to call the shots no matter how unfairly. (Club as in Elks, Rotary, etc., not governing body of a national sport.)
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  10. #100
    Oh Dremel, Dremel, Dremel JCN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I agree, and it makes me respect Ben even more. He has worked hard to be one of the best pistol shooters in world history, and is an excellent instructor. He's also a successful entrepreneur. That he would risk so much shows how much he cares about USPSA as and organization and a sport.
    I respect you a lot, you know this.

    But I have a slightly different take.

    Iím going to say ďI donít think he realized he risked so much because he thought he was the 900 pound gorilla.Ē

    Now that the reality is sinking in, heís understandably scared because just now heís realizing what he actually risked.

    Itís not that he is critical. Thatís okay. Itís that he is personally insulting, demeaning and rude which makes people feel badly while being critical about things.

    Thereís a difference.
    Currently Iím still within the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •