.308 load recommendation for hunting/defense

[Velo Dog]

I am trying to decide on a .308 load for use in a SCAR 17 and Browning DBM semi auto that would be suitable for Kodiak deer, caribou, elk in a pinch, but also capable of grizzly bear defense while out hunting.

I see there is a Barnes 150 grain load, but am open to suggestions.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...7.62+NATO.html

"The 150 grain Barnes TSX shows a definite delay in killing at impact velocities below 2600fps with rear lung shots. This bullet is best suited to game weighing between 90 and 150kg (200-330lb) and is adequate for use on heavier bodied deer up to 320kg (700lb). Wounding is at its most violent at impact velocities above 2400fps on lean game, width of wounding at lower velocities becomes more dependent on target resistance.

The 165 and 168 grain TSX bullets are best suited to large, heavily muscled game. That said, delayed killing occurs at .308 velocities and to this end, shot placement becomes very critical if on the spot kills are to be expected. The heavy weight Barnes bullets produce wide wounding out to moderate ranges... These projectiles are exceptionally deep penetrating bullets, capable of complete broadside penetration of Bovine sized game. The 180 grain Barnes is somewhat too long for optimum use (velocities) in the .308 Win."

[Shawn Dodson]

Hornady 178gr ELD-X.

[willie]

The 165/168 grain bullets seem to be the sweet spot for the .308. I load for several rifles and only the Savage M99 gets 150gr cup and core bullets. Last year I went to a Nosler Accubond 165 on top of Varget, 44 grains? I would have to check records. Out of a 20 inch barrel I get about 2630 fps. This is what I have for eastern North Carolina Black Bear, I have yet to take one as I am still learning how to hunt them. I am confident it would be more than effective with shots to 300 yards up to elk sized game and have taken white tail deer at 400. I do load 168 Nosler Ballistic tips strictly for whitetail hunting, these normally produce one hole groups in any of my rifles. At my last count I have 5 .308s I load for.

What die brand do you use for the rifles? And your press?

Often I have wondered if choosing the 30-06 instead of .308 would give the hand loader a ballistic edge. Any comments?I realize that the .308 permits having a shorter action.

[GJM]

The recommendation is requested for a factory load, that will be reliable in a SCAR H and Browning semi auto, able to harvest deer to caribou sized game, while being able to penetrate the skill of a grizzly.

The Federal Barnes Tripe Shock and Fusion seem interesting.

[willie]

Having the tendency to 'hedge my bets' where dangerous critters with heavy skeletal construction are involved, I look towards monolithic designs as the ''best option'' for a number of reasons. Amongst those are mitigated risk of excessive fragmentation, jacket/core separation, and moderated expansion ratios due to the greater yield strengths of the alloys involved in those designs. Ideally, I'd want to maximize sectional density to ensure greater penetration after expansion.

In 2002, while on safari in Tanzania—with the permission of my PH and the Tanzanian government conservation agent—I took a rather large Cape Buffalo (pictured on my book's cover) with the now-discontinued Winchester .30-06 180-grain Fail-Safe design at about 80 yards.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post776487

Since then, I have been 'sold' on bullets constructed of high-strength alloys if I elect to push a 'light' rifle into 'heavy' territory.

In satisfaction of these strict criteria, I'd recommend the Federal loading of the Barnes® 165-grain Triple-Shock® X hollow-point for the .308 Winchester. I doubt that the .308 case possesses the capacity to drive a 180-grain TSX fast enough to function (expand) correctly.

https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle.../11-P308H.html

You and Crazy Dane are most likely superb marksmen who know their rifles. I think this fact is at the top of the list when accounting for your success though I'm not discounting your ammo.

[flux]

From the African part of the world so have no experience with Elk and grizzly. But shot plenty large game (check the size of a bull eland)this side with my 308 over the years , it's still my primary hunting rifle. There isn't anything I will shoot with the 300win here in Africa that I won't shoot with the 308, the 300 just makes longer shots a tad easier with the flatter trajectory. The 30 06 , same story, I have not found any difference in killing between the 06 and the 308 , the extra fps didn't make much of a difference for normal hunting distances here.

Now contrary to what most people believe, our success load for the 308 win often comes in the guise of standard 180gr cup and core bullets at 2500fps. They just work at moderate velocities. We have dabbled with the 150grTSX and 165gr TSX. And then more recently the tipped versions. The tipped versions definitely seemed to have expanded better. If I want an all round load for the 308 I'd look at the150gr TTSX, if I wanted also something for close up I would take the 165gr TTSX. We also had absolute success with the Hornady GMX line. Now my favourite bullet by far was the Trophy bonded bear claw and North fork. Solid shank with lead up front. Both not available here anymore.

Another absolutely solid choice would be the humble old partition . Even though it's non bonded, it penetrates deep and does give a slightly wider would channel vs the monolithics. We found the tipped version of the monolithics better overall than the non tipped. (Sporadic cases of delayed killing with the TSX, but n this over a period of 10 years). My experience with Barnes in semi auto is limited to two mags in an M&P10. It worked.

[Paul D]

The recommendation is requested for a factory load, that will be reliable in a SCAR H and Browning semi auto, able to harvest deer to caribou sized game, while being able to penetrate the skill of a grizzly.

The Federal Barnes Tripe Shock and Fusion seem interesting.

Consider trying the Federal 165 Trophy Copper .308. It is another monolithic bullet like the Barnes TSX. I have tried it in my AR10. I think the ballistic top helps with feeding with autos. It is not too long so it will probably fit in all mags. Its BC is .503 which beats the hell out of the TSX BC of .398. It is slightly faster out of the muzzle vs the TSX at 50 fps. It is also cheaper by $0.10/rd.

[OlongJohnson]

From reading everything I could find on the topic, my takeaway is that monometals generally kill most effectively when loaded at high velocity, light for caliber. So in the TSX/TTSX lines, 130gr for .308 is likely to put meat on the ground the faster than 165-168 or even 150gr.

The game changer in recent years is the LRX line, which opens reliably at lower impact speed. The advertised purpose is to extend the effective range, but it also works well for reduced loads or heavier for caliber bullets at shorter ranges. And the Barnes people say when the impact speed is "too high" and petals break off, the petals still make useful wound tracks and the base continues to penetrate; the effect is analogous to a Partition, where the front of the bullet works like a cup and core and the base penetrates.

Full disclosure: I haven't shot a lot of stuff with either of them.

[flux]

From reading everything I could find on the topic, my takeaway is that monometals generally kill most effectively when loaded at high velocity, light for caliber. So in the TSX/TTSX lines, 130gr for .308 is likely to put meat on the ground the faster than 165-168 or even 150gr.

The game changer in recent years is the LRX line, which opens reliably at lower impact speed. The advertised purpose is to extend the effective range, but it also works well for reduced loads or heavier for caliber bullets at shorter ranges. And the Barnes people say when the impact speed is "too high" and petals break off, the petals still make useful wound tracks and the base continues to penetrate; the effect is analogous to a Partition, where the front of the bullet works like a cup and core and the base penetrates.

Full disclosure: I haven't shot a lot of stuff with either of them.

I found both the 150/165 TTSX as well as the GMX effective down to 2000fps. For continuous bang flop performance, the fragmenting type such as Berger work well IF you don't hit bone. We have limited experience with the 130grTTSX but so far have never seen a reason to go lighter than 150gr from our results. I must admit, I am not a long range hunter and most of my shots are under 300 metres.

[diananike]

I’m inclined to go for either a bonded medium weight bullet like a 168gr interbond or trophy bonded or a lighter 150gr Barnes copper.
In my case I have an M14 so out of respect for the gas system I’m inclined towards the lighter bullet.
Basically I want something that will do well on cars, big bears and elk. Anything else in North America doesn’t need a .308.