Ammunition, DB and kids for carry

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I read this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....behind-the-hip

I recall many years ago, carrying my baby daughter in a back pack holder. I wasn't into carry then as we didn't live where carry was allowed. Old!

But if I had to carry now with an baby, I thought of this concern:

First - better to be deaf than carried by 6 or your baby carried by 6? Got that out of the way.

However, should one worry about the effect of handgun levels of noise on baby ears? I didn't search the med lit databases for different vulnerability of young ears. I did read a study that loud noise levels can be detrimental to a fetus in a discussion of pregnant women going to the range. I might suspect an immature cochlea might be more prone to damage. Looking at handgun DB levels most of the center fire levels, they are pretty loud: https://earinc.com/gunfire-noise-level-reference-chart/

.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Mag 164.3 dB
.41 Mag 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

Adults suffer damage from these levels, even a few unprotected exposures.

Now, I see that standard 22 LR comes in at 120 DB. That's less. One can even find quite CCI 22 LR at about 60 DB.

So is this a concern, might one carry a 22 LR - there are p-f level folks who would carry a 22 LR J. Read a column about carrying a G44 - more rounds, quicker reloads but I don't know if the quiet rounds would run one.

So is that a concern for new parents? Is 'stopping power' more important vs. the more like deterrent effect of showing the gun or putting some rounds in an opponent vs. going for the more, supposedly efficacious round?

If I was a new parent or transition to grandpa - hmmm? Not an audition guy, was visual neuroscience.

[JCN]

So is that a concern for new parents? Is 'stopping power' more important vs. the more like deterrent effect of showing the gun or putting some rounds in an opponent vs. going for the more, supposedly efficacious round?

If I was a new parent or transition to grandpa - hmmm? Not an audition guy, was visual neuroscience.

It was enough concern to me as a new parent that I bought a professional grade sound meter for a few thousand bucks to test that.

Tested sound levels inside a car with gunshots outside.
Tested with walls and indoors / outdoors.
Tested with my guns to my ear because industry standards is 1m from the muzzle and I really care about the damage to me and people next to me.


It was important enough that I invested in suppressors for home defense.

Tried to get suppressed pistols like the Maxim 9 working, but the trade off of shootability made it a no go.

I personally never did or would consider 22LR on the virtue of dB alone.

[JCN]

Suppressed


Non suppressed

[JCN]

Now, I see that standard 22 LR comes in at 120 DB. That's less. One can even find quite CCI 22 LR at about 60 DB.

This is not correct. There are a lot of incorrect posts on the internet.

Standard 22LR out of a pistol is much louder than 120dB.

And no firearm is 60dB. I would wager that was an inappropriate meter that didn’t pick it up.

That’s quieter than a normal speaking conversation / laughter.

This is from SilencerCentral who is more reputable than random internet sites.

https://www.silencercentral.com/wp-c...sion_chart.pdf

[JCN]

So I saw that CCI quiet out of a rifle was listed at 68 dB which is obviously wrong.

Some people with real meters tested and looked much higher lol.

https://www.silencertalk.com/forum/v...c.php?t=135945



The 45 foot pounds of energy isn’t quite up to the task I think.

[03RN]

Between auditory exclusion, youthful resilience, and the fact that needing a firearm for self defense is so rare I'm not changing anything.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Between auditory exclusion, youthful resilience, and the fact that needing a firearm for self defense is so rare I'm not changing anything.

Thanks for JCN for some research.

However, two things:

1. Auditory exclusion is not relevant - that is a perceptual/memory effect of selective attention. It has nothing to do with hearing damage.

2. I don't know of any data suggesting babies have any specific resilience to noise damage. From what I was taught and later read, the damage is probably permanent. https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyc...ntentid=P00458 for a layperson's reference.

To push this a bit, since handgun usage is rare and most usage is supposedly deterrent - why not a 22 LR handgun if you also carry a baby? A front carrier is guaranteed for full sound exposure for the kid. The sound level is lower than the center fire rounds a bit but still in the dangerous range. A Glock 44 will look just as nasty if deterrence is a factor.

Certainly, we see some p-f level folks carry 22 J frames and older folks with hand problems, the 22 semis.

Just a thought that came to me. By the time carry was legal for me, my kid was a teenager.

Old man yells at the cloud - on 9/1, carry ceases for most situations in NYS, so hearing is safe!!

[03RN]

There's been plenty of research on how auditory exclusion protects long term hearing. I'll try to find some. If it didn't I'd be deaf. While tinnitus sucks I have very good hearing.

I'm not comfortable carrying a 22 in the event I need a gun.

My daughter is to big now for the chest carrier but back when I was still carrying my son I would practice drawing, covering his ear with my left hand and shooting sideways. I do have soft armor in the chest carrier but it still seemed wrong to treat them like a plate

[JCN]

To push this a bit, since handgun usage is rare and most usage is supposedly deterrent - why not a 22 LR handgun if you also carry a baby? A front carrier is guaranteed for full sound exposure for the kid. The sound level is lower than the center fire rounds a bit but still in the dangerous range. A Glock 44 will look just as nasty if deterrence is a factor.

So some functional things.

Not sure if you’re familiar with the revolver technique of protecting your own hearing where you use one hand to plug your weak ear and your shoulder to protect your strong ear.

If I had a baby in a carrier, I would shoot strong hand and cradle their head against my body with my weak arm to protect their head, pinning both their ears with my flesh.

That would be good for probably 15dB reduction.

22LR handguns are still almost as loud as centerfire so I wouldn’t compromise efficacy for that.

These are other options if you diaper bag carried.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Haha, carrying that in a diaper bag - it better be a purpose designed, holster built in diaper bag.

Maybe I should start a thread about how to carry AIWB wearing adult diapers for us older folks! Not there yet.

Galco's new Grandpa and Grandma Dual Purpose AiWB and Adult Protective Gear coming soon.

I'd be surprised if the classic definition of auditory exclusion prevents cochlea damage. I'd have to see it from a peer-reviewed Otolaryngology journal.

@JCN, anyone actually measure the effective noise reduction of the revolver technique. Shooting one handed takes it bit of practice for most? Never used the forward carriers much in our time. Having a forward baby in a gun fight is scary.