I am trying to decide on a .308 load for use in a SCAR 17 and Browning DBM semi auto that would be suitable for Kodiak deer, caribou, elk in a pinch, but also capable of grizzly bear defense while out hunting.
I see there is a Barnes 150 grain load, but am open to suggestions.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
The 165/168 grain bullets seem to be the sweet spot for the .308. I load for several rifles and only the Savage M99 gets 150gr cup and core bullets. Last year I went to a Nosler Accubond 165 on top of Varget, 44 grains? I would have to check records. Out of a 20 inch barrel I get about 2630 fps. This is what I have for eastern North Carolina Black Bear, I have yet to take one as I am still learning how to hunt them. I am confident it would be more than effective with shots to 300 yards up to elk sized game and have taken white tail deer at 400. I do load 168 Nosler Ballistic tips strictly for whitetail hunting, these normally produce one hole groups in any of my rifles. At my last count I have 5 .308s I load for.
I believe there is a .308 Gold Dot load out there. The Fusion/GD projectiles perform well in a lot of calibers.
Having the tendency to 'hedge my bets' where dangerous critters with heavy skeletal construction are involved, I look towards monolithic designs as the ''best option'' for a number of reasons. Amongst those are mitigated risk of excessive fragmentation, jacket/core separation, and moderated expansion ratios due to the greater yield strengths of the alloys involved in those designs. Ideally, I'd want to maximize sectional density to ensure greater penetration after expansion.
In 2002, while on safari in Tanzania—with the permission of my PH and the Tanzanian government conservation agent—I took a rather large Cape Buffalo (pictured on my book's cover) with the now-discontinued Winchester .30-06 180-grain Fail-Safe design at about 80 yards.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post776487
Since then, I have been 'sold' on bullets constructed of high-strength alloys if I elect to push a 'light' rifle into 'heavy' territory.
In satisfaction of these strict criteria, I'd recommend the Federal loading of the Barnes® 165-grain Triple-Shock® X hollow-point for the .308 Winchester. I doubt that the .308 case possesses the capacity to drive a 180-grain TSX fast enough to function (expand) correctly.
https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle.../11-P308H.html
Last edited by the Schwartz; 07-27-2022 at 11:33 PM.
''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein
Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.
Thank you. Do you think that Barnes bullet is conducive to reliable functioning in a semi-auto.Originally Posted by the Schwartz
I once loaned a .30-06 and Fail Safe ammo to a friend going to Africa. They shot a zebra and the bullet completely penetrated and killed the zebra standing behind.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I'll bet you know the answer to that question.
A couple of magazines' worth (Yes, I know that ammo is expensive. Sorry.) will tell you all that you need to know. Consider it an investment in your peace-of-mind.
Not at all surprising. Shot one zebra myself while there. Broadside shot, as he passed from my right to my left at 'full-speed zebra'. The 180-grain Fail-Safe struck and passed just behind his left shoulder and exited a little further behind his other shoulder leaving a wound the size of a Kennedy half-dollar. Laid him flat in a single stride; he didn't even kick once after hitting the ground. Perfection.
Last edited by the Schwartz; 07-28-2022 at 12:17 AM.
''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein
Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.
I'll second the idea of 165 being the upper end for the Barnes TTSX bullets in .308, .30-06 and upwards would be 180 gr. territory. You could also look at the Hornady Full Boar which looks like it's right along those same lines...
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...x-full-boar#!/
Last edited by Thy.Will.Be.Done; 07-28-2022 at 06:51 AM.
If forced into a one-load-to-rule-them-all scenario, especially with California in the mix, then I'd look at the 150-grain Barnes TTSX factory load. It does close to 2,900 fps in my 22" Model 700 with superb accuracy. It wouldn't be my first choice for bear defense but it would be well up on the list.
Barnes bullets need speed to work properly, so I'd shy away from heavier ones in a 308. Defensive shots on bears will be so close that velocity won't be an issue, but shots on the other animals you mentioned could be long (or very long) and the 308 just doesn't carry the freight very far. It's no big deal to load 165-168 class bullets to 2,700 fps in a 22" 308, and careful load work might get 2,800 fps. Barnes recommends a minimum of 2,000 fps impact velocity for the .308" TTSX bullets. In factory loads of 165-168 grains, that's about 300 yards. If you like 2,200 fps as a minimum impact velocity--and plenty of smart folks do--then 200 yards is the limit with that load. In a 23.4" Tikka T3 (which ran a little on the slow side) the 168-grain Barnes factory load didn't quite make 2,650 fps, which reels it in even closer.
Shorter barrels don't improve things. Barnes lists data for 18" and 20" barrels at https://www.barnesbullets.com/load-data/ and Federal's Ballistic Calculator can tell you the rest of that story. For short barrels, I'd go with a heavier bullet since they retain velocity better as range increases. I'd start with the 180-grain Nosler Partition, although in my experience, it runs a little slow in Federal factory loads.
Finally, I wouldn't overlook plain old cup-and-core 180-grain loads like the Federal PowerShok, Remington CoreLokt, and Winchester PowerPoint. The big makers have spent a lot of time and money making sure that those loads work properly on a huge range of animals. They wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd definitely shoot enough of them to have valid data in case the airline misdirected my ammo bag. The 308 can't move them fast enough for the bullet to come apart at close range but they'll work if you have to sail one out to the far edge of reason. They're also cheap, they're usually accurate, and you can find them in a big-box store 30 minutes before closing time on a Tuesday night if it comes to that.
Okie John
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
I got a bunch of (the company from Australia)165gr sierra gamekings when a website was having a close out sale. Poi is very similar to fgmm.
I would just stay with them.
I don't think the .308 is going fast enough to need premium bullets. I'd be happy with any cup and Corey 150/165 bullet and call it good.
If you took the big bears off the needs requirement I would take a look at the 155 Scenar.
It has performed VERY well for us on everything from Coues at +500y to Coyotes at less than 50y. Antelope and Mule deer mixed in as well. I haven't got a chance to try it on elk buy may this year. The BC is VERY good, if that matters and it has exited everything I have shot with it. I can get +2800fps easy out of a 20" Tikka with great brass life (Lapua/Alpha). They sell them in boxes of 1000 for those that practice a lot. Factory ammo has been available, off and on, if that is a requirement.
I know it's not a "hunting bullet" but the freezers here are full none the less.
I have some 185 Berger Classics, 168TMK, and 180NPT on hand but have never even tuned a load after seeing how the Scenar performed on game. Pat Sinclair may have experience with the 155 Scenar on the big bears if you can find him.
Not sure if this helps.
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