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Thread: Uvalde intensifies doubts over whether tiny police agencies make sense - Wash Post

  1. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by feudist View Post
    About 15 years in, a new POST director audited training and had a meltdown. So, it stopped. Until the next big meeting of Sheriffs and Chiefs.
    Then it was back.
    Probably not his hill to die on, which may or may not have been the right choice. Did any of the officers ever complain about getting screwed out of legit training?

    I'm kind of an 'any hill' guy when I think something is wrong and it impacts people or the place I work.

    We got our first FATS system when I was still typing stuff on an electric typewriter, no Mac's on the desk yet. If you aren't familiar, those first machines ran off a laser disc and were strictly 'shoot-don't-shoot' trainers. They also had a printer which gave a printout of the officer's performance. IIRC (it's been a long time) they listed things like 'poor judgement in a shooting situation' if the student shot late or didn't shoot at all, and 'good judgement in shooting situation' plus, if appropriate the elapsed time from what they felt was the initial threat.

    We ran all the students through four scenarios and gave them feedback during the session. When I asked the boss what he wanted to do with the printouts he said 'toss 'em.' I didn't agree and pointed out that if an officer we trained got into a shooting and it came up in court that we had discarded the records, it would look like we were hiding something. Plus, the agency could then wring their hands and say 'you never told us.'

    We included the records in the student files from that point forward.

    Sometimes you have to work it so folks see how what they are doing could bite them in the ass.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  2. #132
    Member feudist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Probably not his hill to die on, which may or may not have been the right choice. Did any of the officers ever complain about getting screwed out of legit training?

    I'm kind of an 'any hill' guy when I think something is wrong and it impacts people or the place I work.

    We got our first FATS system when I was still typing stuff on an electric typewriter, no Mac's on the desk yet. If you aren't familiar, those first machines ran off a laser disc and were strictly 'shoot-don't-shoot' trainers. They also had a printer which gave a printout of the officer's performance. IIRC (it's been a long time) they listed things like 'poor judgement in a shooting situation' if the student shot late or didn't shoot at all, and 'good judgement in shooting situation' plus, if appropriate the elapsed time from what they felt was the initial threat.

    We ran all the students through four scenarios and gave them feedback during the session. When I asked the boss what he wanted to do with the printouts he said 'toss 'em.' I didn't agree and pointed out that if an officer we trained got into a shooting and it came up in court that we had discarded the records, it would look like we were hiding something. Plus, the agency could then wring their hands and say 'you never told us.'

    We included the records in the student files from that point forward.

    Sometimes you have to work it so folks see how what they are doing could bite them in the ass.
    No complaints, just open mockery.
    With our FATS, officers were simply cycled through and shot the scenarios. Little or no critique, no score, no record. Just a participation check on the Qual card. That went for all training other than the yearly POST pistol qualification.
    Zero accountability or proof that any information was even heard over the snoring.
    It was dire.

  3. #133
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    Misc Data Points. Edge of my lane. Never been an officer with arrest authority.

    1. I stand by my prior posts in this thread

    2. Recruitment/Retention of quality officers, men and women, black, white and brown has been an continues to be an issue in my metro area. Folks are leaving the profession and/or getting poached off by "better" departments.

    3. When I first started my job, all of the "blue coat" security folks were either retired MIL or LEO. An inordinate number of them were retired detectives from KCPD which is not surprising given our location, their experience set and pipeline. Every new hire "knew" somebody unless they were a transfer. It was clear that they had been vouched for etc.

    4. Later on, we started seeing 40 somethings mid/late career rural deputies/officers who started getting the blue coat job because it was 2x the pay with better insurance such that the 45-1.5 hr commute ( monster in this metro btw) was worth it. They simply could not keep a house and kids on the pay these smaller depts were paying even if mama had a job too.

    5. In the last 5-6 years, these folks are getting younger and younger. They are 30somethings, many w prior MIL, still young enough to do work out on the street so to speak. They just cannot afford to do it w wife and family.

    6. This year, for the first time there is a recruiting poster over the lock boxes were folks have to check their guns because the pipe line, even for this blue coat security at the court job that pays 31.86 to start plus benefits, is getting harder and harder to fill.

    7. I am prayerful that there will continue to be those that answer the call for such a noble profession.

    YMMV Greatly.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  4. #134
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    Texas
    My opinion is unqualified. My only experience is corrections which does not count when writing about this tragedy. I think that everything that could go wrong went wrong. There were too many cops from different agencies. It appears that chain of command was unclear as in not established. Misinformation interfered. Certainly all individuals present were not incompetent, but poor leadership or lack of structure or both could not overcome stress, horror, and confusion.

    At my large high school I failed in convincing the principal to put numbers on the classrooms in case cops or ambulance folks needed to get there in a hurry. I could give more examples of stupidity. The day I retired I took a large box to her office and dumped out knives, ice picks, brass knuckles, numb chucks, black jacks, and shanks. She almost shit on herself and inquired how I took them. I replied that I asked the kid to put it in my desk drawer and in some cases returned the object if I thought it would not reappear. The Uvalde school may have been run by folks as dumb as my principal.

  5. #135
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    Away, away, away, down.......
    We just had a three man agency get itself disbanded by the city council.

    https://www.al.com/news/2022/08/afte...epartment.html

    Just days after city officials confirmed a text message containing a racist joke was sent by a Vincent police officer, the city council approved a resolution to engage the termination of Police Chief James Srygley and Assistant chief John L. Goss, according to a report by WBRC.

    The council also voted to disband the department and contract with the Shelby County Sheriff’s Office for public safety services, the report noted.

    The actions were taken during an emotional city council meeting Thursday evening.

    Vincent Mayor James Latimore did not immediately respond Thursday night to AL.com about the council’s actions.

    City Councilman Corey Abrams, reached at his home following the meeting, declined to confirm the specifics of the action taken, but said: “I’m still emotional about it.”

    In the message, which surfaced on social media this week, someone identified as “752″ texts: “What do y’all call a pregnant slave?”

    An unidentified recipient responds twice. “?” and “??”

    “752″ answers: “BOGO Buy one, get one free”

    During the council meeting, Abrams, who represents District 5, said: “This has torn this community apart. It doesn’t matter what color we are as long as we d right by people.”

    On Tuesday, he said “appropriate action has been taken” against the officer alleged to have sent the text, though he would not then name the officer or anyone involved.

    The City of Vincent’s website lists only three people in its police department: Srygley, Goss, and Lee Carden.

  6. #136
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Not very bright but does lack ambition
    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    We just had a three man agency get itself disbanded by the city council.

    https://www.al.com/news/2022/08/afte...epartment.html
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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