Indiana Food Court inspired drills

[03RN]

No worries. I guess I haven't been following closely enough to know what the "course of fire was." Plus, anything you do, happy on your own range, bears little resemblance to what that guy encountered on that day.

At this point, I am pretty skeptical as to any of us knowing exactly what the shooting challenge was on that day there. What distance and shot cadence, and what size of available target area. The only thing I can say for sure, is I would be a lot happier carrying a pistol with an optic, and double stack capacity, when engaging at carbine distances, against a carbine.

You don't need to follow to closely. Just read the first post.

[GJM]

You don't need to follow to closely. Just read the first post.

Leaving aside the confusion between comstock and timed, do you think that hitting anywhere on a 42x18 (Popper) or on a 30x24 (B/C) steel for the same points makes sense as a good simulation of this shooting?

[03RN]

Leaving aside the confusion between comstock and timed, do you think that hitting anywhere on a 42x18 (Popper) or on a 30x24 (B/C) steel for the same points makes sense as a good simulation of this shooting?

Sure. I think you're over analyzing it.

It's a drill. It's not combat.

8 rounds on target at 40 yards inside 15 seconds.

Whether on not he leaned against a post, or advanced, or the bad guy moved is all kinda irrelevant. It's just a drill inspired by the events.

In the MOUT village on Schofield we had a course of fire called the Mogadishu mile. It was not an exact, perfect replica of the events that happened in Somalia.

[JCN]

Not sure how you got that idea.

As to what we were doing, we were shooting three rounds on the body and two rounds to the head. I can't imagine anyone still a threat staying put for 15 seconds.

Distance and total time?

[GJM]

Sure. I think you're over analyzing it.

It's a drill. It's not combat.

8 rounds on target at 40 yards inside 15 seconds.

Whether on not he leaned against a post, or advanced, or the bad guy moved is all kinda irrelevant. It's just a drill inspired by the events.

In the MOUT village on Schofield we had a course of fire called the Mogadishu mile. It was not an exact, perfect replica of the events that happened in Somalia.

Of course it isn't combat, this is the internet where everyone gets to go home and post another day. I think this is certainly a topical thread, and should get folks thinking, especially those preparing for a 3-7 yard gunfight. I think we can go further in designing a drill that reflects the shooting challenge and tactical considerations.

Since I bet at least 5 PF bucks the bad guy was standing sideways to the good guy, I would want a target area that reflects the anatomy of the bad guy. I am thinking a USPSA A zone (with perhaps a small part of the C zone for less score, on the theory that any reasonable shot would change the motivation of the bad guy). Now if the bad guy had plates, maybe it becomes a head shot exercise. Can you see plates at 40 and decide?

After establishing the scoring area and values, I would place a high priority and score, just like out hunting, with making the first shot a hit. Quite a bit less points for the second shot, and progressively even less for shots after, on the theory the bad guy would be moving and shooting back at you. Just spit balling, but a more generous time for shot one, on the theory that you need to react and decide to take action, but you control if and when to take shot one.

Well executed, this is a one shot to a high value hit drill. Missing shot one or two might be that real world DQ that sends you home for good.

[Hambo]

I would want a target area that reflects the anatomy of the bad guy.

Get some photo targets in which the BGs are not all squared up. If your guy is shooting at you while standing sideways to you, it's not all bad news. He's presenting less of a target, but his A zone at that angle is a heart/lung shot.

[1Rangemaster]

Of course it isn't combat, this is the internet where everyone gets to go home and post another day. I think this is certainly a topical thread, and should get folks thinking, especially those preparing for a 3-7 yard gunfight. I think we can go further in designing a drill that reflects the shooting challenge and tactical considerations.

Since I bet at least 5 PF bucks the bad guy was standing sideways to the good guy, I would want a target area that reflects the anatomy of the bad guy. I am thinking a USPSA A zone (with perhaps a small part of the C zone for less score, on the theory that any reasonable shot would change the motivation of the bad guy). Now if the bad guy had plates, maybe it becomes a head shot exercise. Can you see plates at 40 and decide?

After establishing the scoring area and values, I would place a high priority and score, just like out hunting, with making the first shot a hit. Quite a bit less points for the second shot, and progressively even less for shots after, on the theory the bad guy would be moving and shooting back at you. Just spit balling, but a more generous time for shot one, on the theory that you need to react and decide to take action, but you control if and when to take shot one.

Well executed, this is a one shot to a high value hit drill. Missing shot one or two might be that real world DQ that sends you home for good.

“Spit balling” here too; if one has the capability, a plate rack or two for the eval. Suggest 5/6 or 10/12(ideally of course, all). Start at 25 and work back. Pressure? First round has to HIT or you buy lunch for your training partner or something…

[backtrail540]

I through my hat in to the current drill-heard-round-the-world. 10 from concealment at 40 yards with 15 second par on a silhouette. A pretty relaxed standard as far a high% target goes - generally an 8" circle or lower uspsa A zone is my high% target choice - so an entire silhouette is particularly generous. The par did add some sort of pressure but it was more effortless than a run on a defoor hat qual it seemed.

I've been carrying an iron sighted 19 a fair amount this summer and it was what I had on today so i ran it. I haven't actually put in much iron sight work lately but wanted to see how it shaked out.





10/10 in 12.43. While it met the standard of the drill, I am not happy with the low d hit. I called it at the 7th or 8th round though. I think for the folks from this forum that put in regular work on b8's at 25 or similar, it isn't a hard standard but the average joe would probably struggle. Clearly shooting on a flat range with little pressure doesn't compare to the man's reality at the mall that day but this thread is simply drills inspired by the event.

[GJM]

An eight inch round steel should reasonably represent an A zone plus some C.

What would be neat, is if you had two stationary eight inch plates, and if you hit them in two shots, the drill is over. If you miss, the two plates start moving and the drill isn't over until you hit both plates. It would reward first shot accuracy and "reward" lack of first shot accuracy with a moving target.

At 40 yards, you better have a reasonably precise shooting gun, with ammo that supports precision, and you must know your zero.

[Clusterfrack]

An eight inch round steel should reasonably represent an A zone plus some C.

What would be neat, is if you had two stationary eight inch plates, and if you hit them in two shots, the drill is over. If you miss, the two plates start moving and the drill isn't over until you hit both plates. It would reward first shot accuracy and "reward" lack of first shot accuracy with a moving target.

At 40 yards, you better have a reasonably precise shooting gun, with ammo that supports precision, and you must know your zero.

Good idea. But I’m thinking a hit anywhere is the most important thing. Big penalty for a miss, but any first shot on target is a pass. Then get more accurate with follow up shots. Use a full metric target, maybe angled at 30 deg.