Indiana Food Court inspired drills

[JCN]

That's what I'll "cold test" next week. Save the ammo, check "cold" precision.

I wonder what people would deem a fair par time to be.

I think the first and second shots would have to be within 0.50-1.0 seconds of each other.

But the draw from that distance might have variable time because if an active shooter gunman didn’t see you and was aiming at others, you might have more time to take a set but you just can’t miss.

I would say sporty would be 2.5 second par for concealed draw and two shots on target at 40 yards.

I would say it’s a good drill up to 3.5 or so.

[feudist]

Anyone else find it odd that no video has surfaced yet? Surely there were multiple security cameras and cellphones recording.

I would have bet it would be leaked out by now.

#disappointed .

[medmo]

Mike Pannone appears to think the Dickens drill stuff has “jumped the shark.”

He’s not wrong…

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChOAWSBP..._web_copy_link

Attachment 92957
Attachment 92956

I agree with tacuptraining's response to Mike Pannone's comments.

tacuptraining:
@the_real_cttsolutions so the drill someone came up with is not exactly what possibly happened who cares REALLY!!!!!!!!Whether the guy was moving, not moving, using cover, no cover, standing, kneeling…BLA BLA BLA who gives a shit. You’re arguing and shitting on people over minutia and assumptions, REALLY??!!!??? Forget how realistic the drill is, it’s not about how tactical the kid was, or that the shooter didn’t move or any other real world scenario you can come up with, End of the day the kid maybe dropped a Mass shooter to the ground with possible 1 or 2 rounds, shit most LE can’t do that. Why can’t the drill be a pure technical drill about the proper execution of solid fundamentals with some time constraints. There’s not an instructor in this community that would shit on that. And As instructors we should be galvanizing and encouraging ALL shooters excited about training, shooting, and performing past their comfort zones, not shitting on them for posting or demonstrating they’re abilities or limitations. I just think you could have gone about this subject in a much more productive manner. JM2C. Stay safe brother!!!!!

[JCN]

@medmo

And this further down which is what I’ve been saying:



@Clusterfrack
#rangerobot

[psalms144.1]

@medmo

And this further down which is what I’ve been saying:



@Clusterfrack
#rangerobot

I'm not either of those folks, but having seen how people in combat move, which is NOTHING like anything I've ever seen anyone able to recreate on the range, hitting the truly vital areas of the brain on a moving, ducking, etc target is really F***ing hard. The only way I can think to effectively train that would be exclusively through force on force.

Having said all that, the reason why LE doesn't teach default to head shots immediately is because of liability concerns. Every bullet launched in the real world has a lawyer attached to it. The rounds you shoot at a moving target's head that miss don't always impact a safe backstop, and can go on to do any amount of harm to property or injury/death to innocents. Not a Good Thing. Similarly, there was discussion of going "zombie drill" as a default multiple times in my 30+ years of instruction, and, every time, the idea was canned as unsustainable in the court of public opinion. Normal folks tend to see immediate head shots as "assassination" or "execution." BS or not, you almost certainly would hear that line from a sleazy attorney after such an incident.

Back to the original topic, ran this drill with my buddy on Friday. Shot it cold from my daily EDC (S&W Shield Plus) concealed under an untucked shirt in a stongside IWB holster. MISERABLE performance for me - only 7 hits, and SLOW. I would really have to work on shooting on the move a lot to get the accuracy and speed of movement back that I had say 10 years ago (when I was training CQB stuff a couple times per month in our Sims shoot house).

After several failed attempts, I decided to just replicate the first two shots, which public opinion seems to have indicated were two decisive hits. I switched to my steel B/C targets, and drew from concealment. First several attempts took me 4-6 rounds to get two hits on steel, at which point the lightbulb went on, and I remembered the old saying "you can't miss fast enough to win the gunfight." Backing off to a more deliberate pace, I found I could score two for two consistently in about 3-4 seconds. After several tries I could do that pretty much on demand, which left me with how bad I suck at shooting on the move.

Interestingly enough, trying to run this with my Shadow 2 didn't significantly improve my shooting. Just made me feel worse about sucking...

[jbrimlow]

Having said all that, the reason why LE doesn't teach default to head shots immediately is because of liability concerns. Every bullet launched in the real world has a lawyer attached to it. The rounds you shoot at a moving target's head that miss don't always impact a safe backstop, and can go on to do any amount of harm to property or injury/death to innocents. Not a Good Thing. Similarly, there was discussion of going "zombie drill" as a default multiple times in my 30+ years of instruction, and, every time, the idea was canned as unsustainable in the court of public opinion. Normal folks tend to see immediate head shots as "assassination" or "execution." BS or not, you almost certainly would hear that line from a sleazy attorney after such an incident.

Thanks for this. I've been wondering "Why not just train to shoot the head from the beginning?" for a while now.

[JHC]

Oh I couldn't miss this opportunity. Yesterday I rolled up cold and decided to use my new 43C from real 40 yards this time.

However I applied the JCN idea, "it's a 2 shot drill". So two from ready at 40 yards with the 43C. 4.96 seconds. Drum roll . . .

[revchuck38]

^^^^BTDT, though not on this drill.

[1Rangemaster]

Oh I couldn't miss this opportunity. Yesterday I rolled up cold and decided to use my new 43C from real 40 yards this time.

However I applied the JCN idea, "it's a 2 shot drill". So two from ready at 40 yards with the 43C. 4.96 seconds. Drum roll . . .

Nice fresh target sir!
I saw that a few times in my competition days, especially at distance. Good for you for giving it the "old college try".
I don't want to belabor this, but incoming can change behavior-witness the Utah mall shooter a few years back. OTOH, there is the matter of background and "stray" rounds...
I remember @ Gunsite 15-20 years ago whacking a popper at 50 yards, from the draw, in about 3-4 seconds about two out of three times-with irons on a G21(!). Might be able to do it with an optic gun now...
I haven't done it this year, but TLG had a "3-fifty-7" drill I liked: Popper or B/C silhouette at 50 yards. From a ready, one shot on it in 3 seconds. Catch was you had to do it 7 times in a row...

[11B10]

Oh I couldn't miss this opportunity. Yesterday I rolled up cold and decided to use my new 43C from real 40 yards this time.

However I applied the JCN idea, "it's a 2 shot drill". So two from ready at 40 yards with the 43C. 4.96 seconds. Drum roll . . .

As Tommy Chong (of Cheech & Chong fame) said: "I've done that, man."