Also quoting for emphasis. Why IMO close range dot drills are fine for some fundamentals practice, they still don't = knowing what you can hit reliably at 25/30/40/50 etc.Originally Posted by JCN
Also quoting for emphasis. Why IMO close range dot drills are fine for some fundamentals practice, they still don't = knowing what you can hit reliably at 25/30/40/50 etc.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
40 yards, 2 rounds, 3.9s, 1.09 split, AIWB concealed under t shirt. Luke warm, dry fired a few times and checked dot illumination first.
Great wisdom. The "knowing" part is the first crucial step in transitioning from "can't do" to "can do." I've come a long way the past several weeks with performance and confidence shooting at 40 yards. A collateral benefit has been performance improvement at 25 yards. Everything seems so much damn bigger at 25 after working 40.
In my opinion, people don’t train with enough rigor at 7 yards and that’s where they fall flat on their training.
I’ll note that the 0.45 split cadence that I used for 40 yard hits is the exact same vision, concentration and mechanics I use to clean a 2” Garcia dot at 7 yards.
Most people don’t hold themself to that kind of a standard up close, thinking that a 12” spread at 7 yards is sufficient.
Most people don’t understand what that scales out to at distance.
That’s the beauty of showing the magnitude of the wobble at distance.
Here’s an example of 7 yard cadence experimentation I did some weeks ago.
I go slower and faster but I know what my mechanical and visual spread is at different speeds.
Last edited by JCN; 09-28-2022 at 04:00 PM.
If people are interested in my opinion regarding training:
This is why I think UNTIMED dot torture is such a disservice.
Being able to pull the trigger once from a gun that’s not in motion and hit a target…
That’s shooting 101 and should be done in dry practice without ammo.
Shooting 201 is about recoil management… but not just managing recoil, there’s no point in managing it if you don’t do something with it. So vision and trigger timing go along with recoil management.
Without holding yourself to a split cadence and reducing dispersion, you’re not really training this part.
That’s why I really dislike untimed dot torture for most people who would be better served by gear change drills specifically tailored to their current ability and just beyond it.
Here’s another advanced concept, I don’t need to know a distance to gauge what my cadence should be….
Because the 6MOA reticle scales and I know what kind of dispersion I have in relation to that at different speeds.
This built in rangefinding is something that isn’t often talked about, but I think an important advantage of dots over irons at distance.
If an iron sight is used to get target reference, that front sight relative size matters based on how far it is from your eye. Bent arms, straight arms, different slight lengths, different front sight widths… they all add variables to how it scales at distance.
But a dot focuses at infinity so no matter how close the RDS is from your eye, it’s always a 6MOA size (assuming that’s your reticle).
So I can use it to judge my target difficulty and cadence irrespective of distance.
#nerdery
@Totem Polar @Clusterfrack
I’m in between classes right now, so no long missive from me (I’m sure y’all are heartbroken) but: I see dot torture as a pure marksmanship drill with accountability; used to confirm the basics that you mention being acquired in dry fire. It’s the logical intermediate step in between dry fundamentals and tracking sights on movers. The “B” in between “A” and “C.”
JMO, OMMV, etc. Others with more expert opinions will be along soon, because, internet discussion.
As to dots vs irons, I’m an acoustic musician luddite; I hate shit that’s powered with electricity. Irons and vinyl.
Which would be a great band name: Iron and Vinyl.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
I might be completely off-base here, but I find great practice for this kind of shooting challenge in shooting bowling pin matches.
5 bowling pins at 8 yards (roughly equivalent of a humanoid target at ~33 yards). You gotta make solid hits to move 'em off the table and you gotta do it fast. I average around 5.5 seconds for 5 pins with a semi-auto CF pistol. I'm not fast, but I tend to be consistent and I'm working in getting faster.
Those pins will eat your lunch if you're not accurate AND fast. Plus the pressure from the person shooting next to you, the timer, and dozens of people watching you cranks it up several notches.
If you don't make solid hits, you end up with a table full of pins on their side. The timer does not stop until the last pin has hit the ground. I see this every match. I've done it many a time.
It is, IMO, a great example of Col. Jeff Cooper's Accuracy, Power, and Speed (Diligentia Vis Celeritas).
No disagreement on what your saying. Just like to add though that nothing truly duplicates shooting offhand at 40 yards with a pistol. The rads and mils speak the truth.
@snow white
Which would be a great band name: Iron and Vinyl.
I decided to give this a try on Friday since we had a full-size IPSC steel up. I used a G19 with Holosun 507c from a Safariland Level 3 holster. I suck at counting so I fired 11 shots and managed 10 hits in 7.58s. I missed the first shot low and to the right and managed to hit the remaining 10. Almost all of my impacts were in the upper right of the steel, with a couple in the head. I had been wanting to give this a try for a bit so it was nice to finally get an opportunity.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
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