"When Less Is More"

[blues]

An interesting blog entry from Steve Moses via CCW Safe which I thought would be of interest to many of our members, since many of us fit this profile.

https://ccwsafe.com/news/when-less-is-more-part-1/


The article is prefaced by a quote from our old friend Darryl Bolke:

“Carrying normal earth people simple gear is nice when I am not in work mode or urban crime mode. I saw a trend with many of the older, VERY experienced guys who have spent several decades immersed in high level violence and dealing with criminals at the highest levels. I am seeing a trend with these folks that is right down the line for my life as well. Many are carrying sub-compact or compact service size, very capable 9 mm pistols most of the time when out in the world and then down-sizing to a small lightweight revolver for a “Rule One” gun (rule one of gunfighting, have a gun). The overwhelming opinion was a sad state of affairs in which these very well trained and experienced folks are no longer willing to get involved in much other than defending themselves and immediate family. All are also carrying knives as a supplement, and I am seeing most also now carrying OC spray, myself included.”

-Darryl Bolke

I'll post a link to part 2 when it is put up.

[Tensaw]

I would (quite respectfully) offer another perspective on this. I recently retired and moved to an area which is both fairly isolated (rural) and theoretically safe. Nonetheless, I have taken to carrying either a Walther PDP Compact or G19X daily, precisely because I'm not leaving the property very much and so I can carry whatever I want without having to get too concerned about concealment. My logic (such as it is) is that, if I have a problem out here in the hinterlands, a) it may be a big problem (carload of methheads or a black bear) and b) I'm for sure going to have to handle things myself (which, honestly, would likely be the case whether I'm at the homestead or across the street from the local S.O.).

Where I find myself making adjustments and having to decide if I want to downsize what I'm carrying is when I go to town and thus have concerns about decent concealment Whether I stick with the bigger pistols or downsize to a G43X is generally determined by where I'm going and what I'm doing. If I'm heading to Lowe's (the parking lot of which can be relatively problematic) and I will be loading a bunch of lumber, I will go 43X. If I'm making a Wal-Mart run or eating out, the bigger pistols go. Any time I select the 43X, I know I am giving up some significant capability - I consider it a belly gun. Yesterday, my bride and I where out gallivanting around, mostly shopping along with going to a local eatery and the PDP went along for the ride. Given the perceived "threat level" of that trip, the 43X should have been fine, but I threw on a Columbia shirt and took the bigger pistol just cause I could.

One last consideration is the Indiana mall shooting. I haven't watched this closely enough to know what pistol the good guy used, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't a J-frame. How sad would it be if someone possessed the skill to successfully intervene in something like that but either chose not to, or did intervene but was not successful in putting the thug down because the gear was not up to the task?

I dunno, the way things are going, I want more gun not less. But that's just me.

[blues]

@Tensaw

I live in a fairly rural area where deer and bear and bobcats are neighbors.

For walking around distances from the house...I carry a J-frame. When I get in the 4Runner to head to town or anywhere else, I take at least a Glock 26 ... or G19.

I don't think there's going to be much of a difference if I need to draw down on a bear...(I encounter them from time to time), but I will admit the one time I had two Rotties running down the hill at me and my Weimaraner, I was glad to have had the G19. (I didn't end up having to shoot them, but they turned at the very last moment of opportunity before I had. It would have been a bad day.)

So, yeah, there's room for debate about which and why...but I guess any level of Rule #1 is better than Rule #0.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Having trained with and trained from Steve Moses, I read what he says carefully. This all goes back to the probability of the perceived risk vs. the outcome of a rare but possible extreme event. Will it be the archetypal single mugger? Will it be more than one opponent? Will it be a heavily armed rampager?

The J frame, G42 (got them both - shoot them to maintain skills, trained with them) are primarily the single opponent gun as Tom Givens has described. Can I make a distance shot with them for the mall rampager as recently done? Well, in some small gun matches I could make a head shot at a distance but that's just a match. In a recent match here, some folks ran smaller carry guns - like a 365 or a G48 and had a hard time with a smaller steel popper at a distance. Not a problem with my RDS G17 - but again it is a match?

Has the extreme event probability become not so extreme given the latest news, so that I do think going to the store is more than the single mugger event. Recently, I had the panhandler with a story try to approach but I deter him with our standard 'can't help you' polite patter. Would my G42 and OC be enough for this person, probably. But it's a Buffalo supermarket that might attract a nut. My gym has the ethnic characteristics that attracts threats and we did have the FBI and local law there for a bit. However, carry a full rig on the weight machines - probably not. I worry about a pocket gun being exposed - what kind of shorts to wear.

Thus, I'm sticking with a 9mm Glock EDC for the most part. The smaller gun, yes for the garbage - but we are in such a low risk area, or when dress limits. It is a moot point because carry disappears here for most practical outings on 9/1 unless some court intervenes.

We note that the vivid instances of the mall and school shooting lead to an overestimation of the probability of them occuring as a typical cognitive error from the analyses of Kahneman.

So who knows? I wear my seat belt and survived four major accidents (from damn fools) that might have done me in.

[CDW4ME]

I'm retired, live in a "good area", and its hot (FL).
None of those factor on what I carry; well, not having to dress for work removes a potentially limiting factor.

My philosophy is strive (try) to carry a handgun I would prefer in hand if I had to defend myself.
I'd prefer a Glock 19 (example) in hand over a snub or LCP everywhere, anywhere, and carry accordingly.
Whether walking my dogs, going for a "quick trip to the store" or venturing out to Walmart (area of greater anticipated threat) - same Glock AIWB.
Less? More? Nah, same everywhere.

[Tensaw]

@Tensaw
So, yeah, there's room for debate about which and why...but I guess any level of Rule #1 is better than Rule #0.

Copy that! Rule 0 is no bueno for sure!

[blues]

Part II


https://ccwsafe.com/news/when-less-is-more-part-2/

[JCN]

I like this nugget for the snub carriers:

While less likely to malfunction in an entangled assault, it likely will not fire if the assailant grasps it by the cylinder. Not many concealed carriers know that the revolver still can be fired by rotating the wrist in the opposite direction that the cylinder turns if this should happen.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I agree with lots of what Steve said. Yesterday, I had to look nice and pocket carry was in (side effect I found my lost knife on my good pants). I decided to carry the G42 vs. my 432 or 642. However, as Steve said - the draw on the J's is easier. I do shoot the G42 better as I shoot them in our carry matches for some practice.

As an aside, I bought one of the first G42s. I took it to Karl Rehn's and when I tried it during a break in class, it jammed up solid as a rock. I let Karl clear it given his greater expertise. It went back to the shop and runs OK now.

It's still the odds vs. the stakes and their interaction. Will I run into a rampage horror show at the fancy restaurant we went to after a doctor's appointment? Might I run into the classic single mugger in the restaurant parking lot in an upscale area with a nationally rank very low crime rate?

[DDTSGM]

I like this nugget for the snub carriers:

While less likely to malfunction in an entangled assault, it likely will not fire if the assailant grasps it by the cylinder. Not many concealed carriers know that the revolver still can be fired by rotating the wrist in the opposite direction that the cylinder turns if this should happen.

That's kind of a 'when the moon is in the second house and Jupiter aligns with Mars' scenario. Try it yourself in DA and see. If you have a fluted cylinder you are more likely to make the guy let go because of pinching the meat of his grip between the top strap and one of the flutes on the cylinder.