410 defensive ammo ballistics test

[jetfire]

The advantage of having a long editorial leash is that I can kind of do what I want some times. For example, I have been curious about the idea of a Mossberg Shockwave with some of the interesting 410 defensive ammo that's out there. So I got two traditional 000 buck loads, a 3 inch 5 pellet from Remington, and a 2.5 inch 3 pellet from Winchester. I also got two of the novelty 410 loads, the Hornady Critical Defense, and a Winchester PDX1 Defender 3 inch.

Here's the 40 minute video that details the test protocol etc; it's timestamped in the description so you can skip around if you want.



If you'd rather read than watch, the 410 buckshot article also contains all my thoughts from the video but in written form.

Brief thought: based on this, as well as conversations with actual ballistic experts, I would not feel underarmed if I had to use the Shockwave loaded with the Remington 5 pellet in a defensive encounter. In fact, it kind of seems like a modern incarnation of the "under the bar" gun of yesteryear.

Also, caveat to everything: I'm not a scientist, I'm just a guy who pulls triggers and makes observations.

[DDTSGM]

If you'd rather read than watch, the 410 buckshot article also contains all my thoughts from the video but in written form.

Link didn't work for me, but this did:

https://www.tactical-life.com/gear/4...allistic-test/

[Bergeron]

Not the results that I would have expected, that's interesting.

I wonder what that Shockwave would be like done up all "cheek gun" style, and with that laser you mentioned. I really, really wonder what it would all be like out of a SBS Saiga-410, but I've already got waaaay to many projects to go around wondering about more.

Thanks!

PS- shout to your 10mm article, and for actually discussing a recreational Centimeter load that isn't pushing lots of power. People can whine "40 Short & Weak" all they want, but stuff like that AE load are what actually makes it possible to shoot a lot.

[diananike]

The 410 shockwave has very mild recoil compared to my 12 gauge model.
It would be very easy to cheek even without a recoil strap (which is really a necessity on 12 gauge models)
You definitely would want a raised optic though. I can’t get my face down low enough to use the bead properly and it shoots high to begin with without a raised bead.

[jetfire]

The 410 shockwave has very mild recoil compared to my 12 gauge model.
It would be very easy to cheek even without a recoil strap (which is really a necessity on 12 gauge models)
You definitely would want a raised optic though. I can’t get my face down low enough to use the bead properly and it shoots high to begin with without a raised bead.

Yeah, if I decide to keep this gun and really suss this idea out, I'd definitely want to work on the cheek weld method. Either that or get a laser saddle and one-hand it everywhere

[jh9]

Can you expound a bit on what "wasn’t excessive" in terms of recoil means for the 3" load? Comparable to a .38 special out of a steel frame gun? .357 level recoil out of a 4" steel 686? 9mm Beretta 92?

For "basically no felt recoil" for the 2.5" Winchester... something like a .22 pistol?

Wondering how this would work for recoil-averse shooters, people with compromised grip due to nerve damage, arthritis, etc. A corollary to the Old Man Gun, maybe the Old Man Gauge. I think @03RN has a shockwave with some sort of RDS. Dunno what mount and if it would work with this. If so it starts to sound like an interesting project. I wonder where the 5 pellets of #000 falls on the terminal effectiveness continuum.

[03RN]

I have the scalarworks mount. I'm not sure if the 410 receiver is compatible.

[diananike]

Looking at the hole patterns in my 410 it seems to match the 12 gauge mount.
I haven’t tried one yet as I’m waiting for a good deal on a quality optic.

[JCN]

I really like my 20 gauge Shockwave with a laser.

[jetfire]

Can you expound a bit on what "wasn’t excessive" in terms of recoil means for the 3" load? Comparable to a .38 special out of a steel frame gun? .357 level recoil out of a 4" steel 686? 9mm Beretta 92?

For "basically no felt recoil" for the 2.5" Winchester... something like a .22 pistol?

Wondering how this would work for recoil-averse shooters, people with compromised grip due to nerve damage, arthritis, etc. A corollary to the Old Man Gun, maybe the Old Man Gauge. I think @03RN has a shockwave with some sort of RDS. Dunno what mount and if it would work with this. If so it starts to sound like an interesting project. I wonder where the 5 pellets of #000 falls on the terminal effectiveness continuum.

Recoil is hard to quantify since everyone experiences it differently, but when stretching the gun with the 2.5 inch loads, my experience with the felt recoil was such that I'd be happy to hand the gun to 95 pound person with minimal upper body strength.

The 3 inch shells required me to exercise a bit better technique re: stretching the gun but weren't any worse recoil wise than say, a spicy 10mm out of a GP100.