For most of my shooters .10 is inconsequential.Originally Posted by JCN
Especially compared to hunting for the dot half the time.
I’m not fast but I watched Jedi keeping up with BJ Norris using the wave so… it’s certainly viable, at least for some.
For most of my shooters .10 is inconsequential.
Especially compared to hunting for the dot half the time.
I’m not fast but I watched Jedi keeping up with BJ Norris using the wave so… it’s certainly viable, at least for some.
Agreed. But the guys hunting for the dot would be better off with a large window or ACSS off window indicator rather than trying to drop it from outside the window. IMO.
It’s funny, I took 6 months off pistol to let my wrist injury heal up and for whatever reason (PCC index maybe?) my index wound up getting high. It’s driving me nuts lol.
My guys have Romeo1PROs issued which has a large window.
Those running POWs have a choice of that or RMRs.
Those who want something smaller for off duty / back up with have Romeo Zeros which has a much smaller window.
I have a regular Romeo 1 which I think is the same window as the Pro.
The height of the window is pretty short. It’s wide but it’s not tall.
With rear irons in back, I could see how there would be no choice but to drop it from above because if you came low with irons blocking you can’t see anything (which is another reason irons forward is a good idea).
Look at the difference in window height.
Romeo 1 on left, SRO middle and 507k on right.
So I still think those techniques are limited by historic equipment and will be outdated in the future.
When I had my wife start training dots, I had her use a 507c with full circle dot reticle and trained her on time pressure draws and transitions. Having the time pressure goal on presentation to find it in practice stimulates learning with more intense feedback. If you don’t hit it in the goal, the brain is disappointed and that’s powerful learning.
I had her do full circle dot so she could locate reticle even when center circle was off screen.
I know some of the guys don’t like to practice but she really isn’t a gun person and just has been dabbling.
But with good training drills she can do this after 9 twenty minute range sessions.
If and when someone (Holosun? Sig?) makes a more robust larger window optic, it’ll be a game changer for less experienced dot shooters.
The Tier 1 holster guys and IIRC even Langdon are mainly using SRO.
I think dropping the dot in from above is more comfortable, because you see the dot earlier. You are using your vision to put the dot on the target.
With more of a direct draw, you see the dot later. However a direct draw sets me up for firing a faster and more accurate second shot, because I am locked up earlier. It is easier doing predictive shooting using this method.
I have had to spend a lot of effort trying to stop myself from dropping the dot in. For jack ass positions in a tactical setting, BUIS reliably get the dot in the window.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Definitely not a Pat Mac thing, but it is a big Scott Jedlinsk thing which is why you see it (and permutations of it) around Modern Samurai Project adherents.
I would not recommend the "drop from 12 o'clock" or any technique that requires the shooter to alter the draw stroke and/or presentation from the ready in illogical ways.
"True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe
In his video "What Sights I Use & How I Draw", Mcnamara demonstrates the angular drive of the gun forward. The dot drops from 12 on every draw. He calls it "high purchase to flat presentation". It's very subtle when done right. He also dispels the myth that it is slower. The draw method is effective in assisting in dot acquisition when you're not always presenting on a flat range. Moving one handed, presenting from SUL, from the high ready/low ready, alternate shooting positions etc.
This thread is already gold to me for making me realize I regressed and was slightly ducking my head in a semi-turtle tuck... Apparently the motion was creeping back into my stance unbeknownst to me.
By keeping my head upright and stable I immediately started picking up the dot again like I should instead of occasionally needing to hunt a bit.
It only makes sense since my hands know where my eyes are and vice-versa, but asking them to meet somewhere in the middle adds a layer of complexity.
It's aggravating how a lack of consistant, quality practice can allow old/bad habits to manifest seemingly of their own accord.
So here is a question for those advocating dropping the dot in from above into the target.
I think we have established that we want to be target focused shooting a pistol optic. What I try to do, is look intently at the spot on the target I want to hit, see the dot come into my vision while looking at the spot, and fire the shot with the appropriate amount of dot control and trigger control necessary for that specific shot. I worry that looking for the dot and dropping it onto the spot doesn't contribute to target focus?
Last edited by GJM; 07-09-2022 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Spell better
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I'd say the process is the same whether you're dropping from 12 or driving the gun straight. You're still staying target focused. If you're draw mechanics are solid you won't have to hunt for the dot, it will be in your periphery while you engage the target. If I take focus off the target in any capacity the chances of the dot being where I want it decrease.
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