James Woods retweets

[BehindBlueI's]

DA dismisses charges; says she cannot overcome self defense claim (Note slide in recoil)

While not commenting on any given incident, more robust self defense laws in my state have absolutely allowed likely murderers to not be charged due to some very very questionable self-defense claims, particularly amongst acquaintance and domestic murders. Unintended consequences, and if they are worth it or not is debatable I suppose, but consequences none the less. Jury empathy matters a lot as well. Another reason women are charged less frequently in similar circumstances, there's wide spread cultural belief that if a woman shoots a man he probably had it coming. A man who shoots a woman is in for a rougher time, though, even if the other factors are samey-same exactly.

[jd950]

While not commenting on any given incident, more robust self defense laws in my state have absolutely allowed likely murderers to not be charged due to some very very questionable self-defense claims, particularly amongst acquaintance and domestic murders. Unintended consequences, and if they are worth it or not is debatable I suppose, but consequences none the less. Jury empathy matters a lot as well. Another reason women are charged less frequently in similar circumstances, there's wide spread cultural belief that if a woman shoots a man he probably had it coming. A man who shoots a woman is in for a rougher time, though, even if the other factors are samey-same exactly.

I agree. Victims/defenders who are elderly, people with physical disabilities, women assaulted by men and significant size disparities between attacker and victim are factors that make a difference many times.

My post and photo above really addresses a slightly different issue...broader political and social pressures affecting prosecution decisions. As it happens I am pretty familiar with the situation I posted about above, so am comfortable with commenting on that situation as an illustration of my point.

[willie]

I'm elderly, have physical disabilities, and weak. Have gun. Will travel. Wire Willie at Hotel PF.

[hufnagel]

What is it that Uncle Clint says.....?

Oh yea, Shoot 'em in the crotch, then go to work.

Lemme ask this:
You're the lady in this scenario, you draw and bad guy reaches for your gun, even if you can't get sights on target (or even 100% certainty the muzzle is covering his person at all), do you let one loose, under the guise of, it'll either scare the shit out of him or it'll hit something on him? Asking academically, and if possible legally.

[willie]

While not commenting on any given incident, more robust self defense laws in my state have absolutely allowed likely murderers to not be charged due to some very very questionable self-defense claims, particularly amongst acquaintance and domestic murders. Unintended consequences, and if they are worth it or not is debatable I suppose, but consequences none the less. Jury empathy matters a lot as well. Another reason women are charged less frequently in similar circumstances, there's wide spread cultural belief that if a woman shoots a man he probably had it coming. A man who shoots a woman is in for a rougher time, though, even if the other factors are samey-same exactly.

It's like everybody knows that women are tough, and some can whip a man. However, when a fight between a man and woman starts in a beer joint, the man will have others beat his ass if he really hurts the woman.

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

BehindBluel’s & jd950, appreciate the discussion - good points and in line with what I was looking for. I live in MA and just spent some time going through the state statues which I suspect are quite a bit less friendly than those of others. MA doesn’t reference criminal confinement in a the robbery statue though it is of course a felony.

I’m thinking that as an adult male in my area unless there was a palpable physical disparity / weapon to factor in, it would be wisest to treat as a don’t shoot yet if possible.


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[BehindBlueI's]

BehindBluel’s & jd950, appreciate the discussion - good points and in line with what I was looking for. I live in MA and just spent some time going through the state statues which I suspect are quite a bit less friendly than those of others. MA doesn’t reference criminal confinement in a the robbery statue though it is of course a felony.

I’m thinking that as an adult male in my area unless there was a palpable physical disparity / weapon to factor in, it would be wisest to treat as a don’t shoot yet if possible.


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Criminal confinement is distinct from robbery. It's akin to kidnapping, and many states combine them. The difference, when they are not combined, is kidnapping means you move the person against their will while confinement means you keep them NOT moving against their will. "Don't move or I'll shoot you" equals confinement while "go over there or I'll shoot you" equals kidnapping. There does not have to be a direct threat, coercion and sometimes even fraud (get in, I'm your Uber...) can meet the required elements. Different states will inevitably vary.

[jd950]

BehindBluel’s & jd950, appreciate the discussion - good points and in line with what I was looking for. I live in MA and just spent some time going through the state statues which I suspect are quite a bit less friendly than those of others. MA doesn’t reference criminal confinement in a the robbery statue though it is of course a felony.

I’m thinking that as an adult male in my area unless there was a palpable physical disparity / weapon to factor in, it would be wisest to treat as a don’t shoot yet if possible.


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While I agree with BehindBlueI's description of those legal concepts, I would generally encourage a person who has concerns/questions about the legal aspects of self defense to find a lawyer, licensed in the jurisdiction, and who is very familiar with the civil and criminal laws and practices that are pertinent to self defense, including how the criminal laws are viewed / enforced by local law enforcement and how such issues have been treated in the civil courts. "Buy" an hour of the lawyer's time to get some advice. Trying to make sense of the laws on your own or with help from the internet can be dangerous.

Your last sentence leads me to feel you really would benefit from a deeper understanding of some overriding concepts of when deadly force is permissible/reasonable. It is much cheaper and easier to learn in advance than after being charged with a felony...

[BehindBlueI's]

While I agree with BehindBlueI's description of those legal concepts, I would generally encourage a person who has concerns/questions about the legal aspects of self defense to find a lawyer, licensed in the jurisdiction, and who is very familiar with the civil and criminal laws and practices that are pertinent to self defense, including how the criminal laws are viewed / enforced by local law enforcement and how such issues have been treated in the civil courts. "Buy" an hour of the lawyer's time to get some advice. Trying to make sense of the laws on your own or with help from the internet can be dangerous.

Your last sentence leads me to feel you really would benefit from a deeper understanding of some overriding concepts of when deadly force is permissible/reasonable. It is much cheaper and easier to learn in advance than after being charged with a felony...

Agreed. A relevant class from Massad Ayoob is also a worthwhile investment. I've been in this space for quite awhile and @Mas and I have come up with many of the same ideas and concepts independently, but I still had some nice takeaways from his class.

[Rocket20_Ginsu]

Great advice - thank you both


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