Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster
Good vid from Forgotten Weapons here, you were probably remembering this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_klgrR9je2c
Good vid from Forgotten Weapons here, you were probably remembering this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_klgrR9je2c
Nowhere near the same, but in Navy security training, we were told not to consider the welfare of the hostages. In a training class, one sailor asked: "What if the BGs are using human shields?"
The answer was: "Shoot the BGs and shoot through the hostages if you must." He paused a few seconds and added; "Maybe you'll be lucky and they'll take your mother-in-law hostage."
I think they changed that to allow for negotiations, but the bedrock principle was the same: People are expendable, the stuff being protected was not.
If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.
I wouldn't see any qualitative reason it wouldn't be used. Hostage rescue wasn't the sole mission/reason for existence of Delta pre-9/11, either, so that's not an accurate way to frame the issue.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
My uncle was on the national DOE SRT for a while, and was sent to Hostage Negotiation class in the mid 80s.
His story: told the hostage takers "come out"...
They responded "fuck you"...
He said "nevermind, we'll come in"...
He was a NOGO at that station.
He didn't care. He was a SWAT LT on a federal SWAT team with hostage rescue responsibilities, and real world mission experience...
He had The Job.
Talking < doing.
Seems like he would not do well in a position of leadership today...
pat
JMHO, but folks here have commented that it’s a “trigger” drill,etc. I submit that it has an element of stress if the shooting is done with some consequence for “failing”. That stress could be self induced or external-lunch bought for high scorer for example.
For me, it might be I’d have to buy a ZEV!
Just joking folks…
Happy and safe Independence Day to those here!
Your uncle sounds like a numbnuts. I suppose if he was commander of a SWAT team then he was sent to Hostage Negotiation class to get a better understanding of negotiation side of crisis response, and he failed.
(As an aside, a lot of people have real world mission experience. Doesn't mean they know what the hell they are doing or that they can't learn something knew.)
So the first time I shot The Test I had just run it as an in service drill for officers at my dept. I’d heard of it online but never shot it. After my people had shot it with varying degrees of success, 93 being the top score, they asked me what my score was. I said I’ve never shot it.
So at their request I shot it and scored a 100 with my Gen 3 G19 with and Ameriglo orange front sight. Should have went and bought a lottery ticket right afterwards.
From an unpublished AAR of mine:
Chuck [Pressburg] then started to talk about the Bianchi Cup, specifically the falling plate portion (hereafter mentioned only as the Bianchi Cup). In one of his former units, this drill ended up replacing the 700 Point Aggregate (AKA The Humbler), as the Bianchi Cup took less time and logistics; all that was needed to shoot a Bianchi Cup was simply a plate rack and a timer. The Bianchi Cup is shot Virginia count and strictly against par; thus, there is in theory no incentive to try and push the speed to finish much faster than the par time. Thus, with this set of rules, two shooters can arrive at the same score under very different circumstances, but also indicate very different mindsets. For example, the first shooter may score a 5 out of 6, but finish with a large amount of time left over in the par time; a second shooter may also score a 5 out of 6, but only because they went slightly over time, and thus the last hit didn’t count. Typically, the first shooter is considered to have performed more poorly, despite having the same score, as they did not take advantage of the time presented to them, and thus failed to perform properly on demand; the second shooter may have also dropped a plate score-wise, but due to the full use of their time, they potentially show a better understanding of their own shooting abilities and limits, and thus more maturity. The idea that one will simply always run drills with the idea of an 80% success rate in order to try to push one’s performance almost never works, as then in a real-world situation, one will have great difficulty dialing back; there must be some training done that demands perfect accountability.
The Bianchi Cup is shot at 10, 15, 20, and 25 yards, starting with the gun loaded and holstered; par times for each distance are 6, 7, 8 and 9 seconds respectively. Due to buzzer lag, there is a ~0.1 second leeway, e.g., 6.09 seconds overall time would pass at the 10 yard line, but 6.10 would not. Typically, any malfunctions would result in a mulligan, but running out of ammo mid-string does not, as that latter is simply poor ammo management. Each distance is shot twice, both times for score.
...
Chuck noted that the 15 and 20 yard lines are generally where people had the most problems, as 10 yards was close enough for folks to be sloppy, and 25 yards was far enough to scare people into being extremely deliberate, but the middle two were an unhappy medium that would lull people into a false sense of security. The max acceptable score would be 10 plates down, while anything 5 and under would be considered very good.
I don't remember if that maximum acceptable score was for the class or for his previous unit.
Last edited by Default.mp3; 07-03-2022 at 09:24 PM.
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