More Fancy Guns For Armed Government Employees

[UNM1136]

Maybe @1Rangemaster is thinking of CAG/Delta’s year long trial of .40 cal STI 2011s prior to adopting .40 Glocks. However that was over 15 years ago and a lot has changed. In particular Stacatto redesigning their magazines and outsourcing their production to a Magazine company.

I remember hearing about that shortly after the time, on a couple different forums. Seems to be the reason The Test is capitalized. The soldiers had a choice of 2011s or Glocks for their one try, pass and proceed or fail and get RTU'd pistol exam. To a man, they chose the Glocks.

pat

[1Rangemaster]

Care to expand on that with some detail and facts?

What @HCM put up; and I sincerely appreciate the correction/additional information. I most probably did conflate/confuse the two, as I’ve been going through the Vickers 1911 Guides and I recall an example of a 2011 .40. So, apologies…
We, forum-wise, probably will not know “reasons”. NDAs, the desire for unique, sole source item, etc. If it works for them, ok then. I certainly hope it does. I like and carry GLOCKs. JMO, but a G45MOS seems to fit. But as @JCN points out-and the referenced article states-there was also some subjective preference involved.


https://pistol-forum.com/newreply.ph...eply&p=1369377

[JCN]

But as @JCN points out-and the referenced article states-there was also some subjective preference involved.

I actually think it’s more objective than subjective.

Regardless of what we like, if there’s a gun with a similar grip angle to what we are trained on… that gun will probably perform better on index tests at speed.

While I can shoot a variety of grip angles, it takes angle correction from my base index.

If I could pay $500 more and not have to train a different index, would totally be worth it for me.

Grip angle and index is a major reason I carry a P365 over a G43x.

[1Rangemaster]

The contract references testing in January of this year that includes individual comments on “pointability” and “ergonomics”, amongst other criteria. To me, that’s a blend-JMO.
Certainly agree that what one has trained on has an impact. I don’t know what they were running before. The article has an image from several years ago that shows a female administrator w/what looks like an M&P. Reference earlier in thread about P220s- and so on.
Still, a curious choice; I’ll leave it at that.

[HCM]

I remember hearing about that shortly after the time, on a couple different forums. Seems to be the reason The Test is capitalized. The soldiers had a choice of 2011s or Glocks for their one try, pass and proceed or fail and get RTU'd pistol exam. To a man, they chose the Glocks.

pat

I don’t know about all that. I do know they only had the 2011s for a year and the government never took ownership of them. They were leased / test loaners so they went back to STI at the end of the trial.

I understand there were several factors that went into the decision including maintenance/support etc.

[Dave Williams]

I remember hearing about that shortly after the time, on a couple different forums. Seems to be the reason The Test is capitalized. The soldiers had a choice of 2011s or Glocks for their one try, pass and proceed or fail and get RTU'd pistol exam. To a man, they chose the Glocks.

pat

Wait, so The Test is the go/no go test?

[1Rangemaster]

Wait, so The Test is the go/no go test?

I’ve read and heard(e.g., Hackathorn) that “The Test” was a “qualifier” for active duty status-my terms. I don’t recall the original details, as in how it was shot with a 1911, but I do recall the details around it. As in, one could warm up/practice as much as one wanted, but then you said this run for score-again, my terms. If you didn’t make it, you were off the team until you did.
There’s a YouTube video of Hack and Vickers discussing it; in it, Hackathorn as I remember says the black of the B8 is the zone. The point scoring came later.
It has evolved. Perhaps @WayneDobbs can enlighten-he has some excellent variations.
JMO, but if one can get all in the black, cold, from the ready, you’ve got a pretty good grasp of the fundamentals and ok to go for the day.
I’m pretty sure a lot of folks here-@JCN, Mr. White, @GJM-could do it without breaking a sweat…

[1Rangemaster]

Added to edit above^^^^

There is a thread here going back to 2012 at least; YouTube video embedded in it.

And in the spirit of this thread, maybe someone could run it with a Zev pistol and aftermarket mags-see if the combination gets through the 10 rounds!
😉😏

[UNM1136]

Wait, so The Test is the go/no go test?

That is my understanding, at least during the OTC. Several here were members at Lightfighter and 10-8 Forums when Chuck Pressberg went through. Stuff...Filtered out. There were several other members of that unit on both of those boards at that time.

I got away from Lightfighter.com when they went all wonky with the GUI. So, it has been a LOT of years. @1Rangemaster, I think, has it correct: practice as much as you want, but when you call "for reelzies" you better be sure.

Of course, my info is well over a decade old. Who knows the standard is today, other than those actually doing it...

pat

[John Hearne]

Do we know if The Test is still used? It seems like an artifact of a pre-GWOT world where hostage rescue was their sole reason for existence.