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Thread: PR-24 (tonfa) two-hand?

  1. #1

    PR-24 (tonfa) two-hand?

    Street theatre is back in season and so people are posting videos of officers and mobs.

    What struck me is that both in a video about LA and in one shot in NY, the officers are holding their PR-24s with right hand on the handle and left hand on the end of the baton. That seemed to work for them when pushing someone back -- two hands and a short stick between.

    Both videos, however, had officers striking while still holding with two hands -- and in both videos the strikes were almost entirely useless (almost wrote 'pointless' but of course, it's a stick!). Not punching with either end, nor poking with a two hand grip, but sort of clubbing down awkwardly.

    Is this something being taught for retention purposes? CYA lawsuit defense? Or secret squirrel tonfa technique?

    (disclaimer: not LEO, only kobudo guy).

  2. #2
    I’ve not had any PR-24 training since the 90s but I don’t recall any two hand strike techniques.

  3. #3
    I trained on the PR24 in like '09 with periodic refreshers until '14. The only 2 handed stuff we did was striking with the long end of the baton about mid rib level.

    I've never put it into action, and have no idea how effective it is.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    The first technique you’d described is one I’ve always liked. It’s a jab with a lot of force. You can also use that to drag the short end of the baton diagonally across the chest. You’d use that to get someone out of your way. That hurts!

    The only two handed strike I can recall was holding the short end of the stick with your support hand. Strong hand on the handle. You rotate your hips into the strike and your support hand pulls/pivots the short end into the strike. I can’t remember what the strike was called. When I went through the PR24 training in the early 90s the instructor said DPS was using it effectively against violent, striking miners.

    There were some two handed control moves that were quickly forgotten.

    I carried a PR in uniform most of my career. We were issued short ASPs and they were useless. When I drove I could keep the PR in my belt ring with the short stick under my armpit. When I stepped out it’d drop right in the ring.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  5. #5
    I never hit anyone with one but I did a pretty good arm lock in a bar parking lot one night. We had the collapsible ones (PR24X I think)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    The first technique you’d described is one I’ve always liked. It’s a jab with a lot of force. You can also use that to drag the short end of the baton diagonally across the chest. You’d use that to get someone out of your way. That hurts!
    "Tsuki" would be the kobudo term for it, with the appropriate term in front for high/middle/low.

    The only two handed strike I can recall was holding the short end of the stick with your support hand. Strong hand on the handle. You rotate your hips into the strike and your support hand pulls/pivots the short end into the strike. I can’t remember what the strike was called. When I went through the PR24 training in the early 90s the instructor said DPS was using it effectively against violent, striking miners.
    That's the one they're trying, but there's no hip and no base foot, so it comes off as 'pawing' at the pantifa. IMO they'd have been better off doing it with an Irish stick fighting size, about the length that used to be called, appropriately, riot sticks.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No.6 View Post
    "Tsuki" would be the kobudo term for it, with the appropriate term in front for high/middle/low.



    That's the one they're trying, but there's no hip and no base foot, so it comes off as 'pawing' at the pantifa. IMO they'd have been better off doing it with an Irish stick fighting size, about the length that used to be called, appropriately, riot sticks.
    I’ve still got my old riot stick and my PR in the garage. The riot stick used to ride in the car too.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97 View Post
    The first technique you’d described is one I’ve always liked. It’s a jab with a lot of force. You can also use that to drag the short end of the baton diagonally across the chest. You’d use that to get someone out of your way. That hurts!

    The only two handed strike I can recall was holding the short end of the stick with your support hand. Strong hand on the handle. You rotate your hips into the strike and your support hand pulls/pivots the short end into the strike. I can’t remember what the strike was called. When I went through the PR24 training in the early 90s the instructor said DPS was using it effectively against violent, striking miners.

    There were some two handed control moves that were quickly forgotten.

    I carried a PR in uniform most of my career. We were issued short ASPs and they were useless. When I drove I could keep the PR in my belt ring with the short stick under my armpit. When I stepped out it’d drop right in the ring.
    "Power swing". Instructors used to tell us your attacker would find his knee cap on the next block. You can also hold the long extended portion with your support hand and jab for "power jabs".

    There were also locks, drags, and takedowns. The Georgia State Trooper takedown became the "Strong Side Takedown", IIRC.

    But my Manadanock stuff is nearly three decades out of date. @Mas @SouthNarc

    pat

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by No.6 View Post
    Street theatre is back in season and so people are posting videos of officers and mobs.

    What struck me is that both in a video about LA and in one shot in NY, the officers are holding their PR-24s with right hand on the handle and left hand on the end of the baton. That seemed to work for them when pushing someone back -- two hands and a short stick between.

    Both videos, however, had officers striking while still holding with two hands -- and in both videos the strikes were almost entirely useless (almost wrote 'pointless' but of course, it's a stick!). Not punching with either end, nor poking with a two hand grip, but sort of clubbing down awkwardly.

    Is this something being taught for retention purposes? CYA lawsuit defense? Or secret squirrel tonfa technique?

    (disclaimer: not LEO, only kobudo guy).
    @No.6, could you post a link to those videos? The verbal description in the original post doesn't sound like any of the approved Monadnock techniques with the PR-24. The power spin -- known as the "power stroke" on LAPD -- is a horizontal spin performed with the dominant hand on the handle and the support hand on the short end, with the impact of course delivered by the long end.

  10. #10
    I think (probably) this is one I viewed ... the net being what it is, there are lots of variations on this theme going around in the last couple days, so this might not be *the* one I first saw that inspired the post. Dug it up from mobile and believe this will post OK. This link embeds a Rumble video that unfortunately requires a login, and I think this link doesn't.

    https://truthsocial.com/@DC_Draino/p...46693784394661

    (And tangentially, having gotten it on the bigger screen, our officer looks like he switched the left hand to the short end as Mas describes (0.08), but still didn't accomplish much as our boy is back at it by 0:14).

    In the midst of the search for it, found an overhead moment of exactly the same scene from ABC7 (https://youtu.be/AVlDD2yxcHE?t=41) at 0:41 so that's helpful. (Great, seeing ABC7 makes me think of George Fischbeck's weather broadcasts)

    Still IMO too short of a stick to make use of two hands because the radius of rotation is further shortened by the second hand -- it's like a very short kids' bat used this way. Maybe if he'd been able to follow through? But still, the one handed spinning hit (naname uchi) is stronger, more range, and on recovery can be used again on the reverse stroke to the same or alternate target (akin to Filipino abenico) plus then the free hand remains live for eventualities. That's more training though.

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