Why are most all of the mil/agency firearms foreign manufactures?
SIG, Glock, FN, Benelli, Beretta, HK, etc have US manufacturing plants and American engineers but...
Why are there so few actual American firearms brands represented within the mil and agency contracts?
Are you loyal to the constitution or the “institution”?
Lack of innovation/failure to pass trails, labor costs, old manufacturing plants/ tooling and good old fashioned cronyism would be my top guesses.
On the other hand demanding designed and made in country weapons led to the adoptation of such winners as the M14 and the M60 when we could have had a true intermediate caliber FN FAL and either the FN MG240 or an updated MG42/ MG3 by the mid 1950’s
For other “it has to be made here” failures look at Britain’s SA80 or the French using the 10 round capacity MAS-49 until 1978.
Last edited by Caballoflaco; 06-25-2022 at 10:20 AM.
Yeah, I'm not aware of any true US weapon passing a Military trial. (Though I don't keep up with most rifle trials)
My agency issued American made guns (S&W 2nd and 3rd gen pistols/Mossburg 500 shotguns) until the later 1990s. Glock was the replacement issue handgun because .40 and light rails. The shotguns were supplemented by Colt SMG and Ruger PC40 as pool guns. We are still Glocking the holsters but have Colt/S&W AR rifles. No more lethal shotguns. Other than Glock, we are using US made guns.
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber, date unknown.
We had 3rd Gen S&W until going Glock in the early to mid 90's. (Many of us were already carrying our privately owned Glocks beforehand.)Originally Posted by Jason M
Shotguns were Remington 870.
Steyr and HK for our tac teams.
(Haven't kept up with current issue.)
There's nothing civil about this war.
Regarding SIG
SIG Sauer does not develop or produce any mil/agency firearms in Germany anymore since they closed their plant in Germany. Here is only Sauer & Sohn for hunting rifles left. SIG Sauer and Sauer & Sohn have at least one common German owner (Michael Lüke).
My shooting buddies and I don't consider SIG Sauer to be a German company anymore. One just bought a new pistol only few month ago. First he wanted a SIG Sauer for a long time (X-Five). But in the end he bought a CZ. (I suppose mainly because he was concerned about SIG Sauer spare parts availability here in the future. I also told him that you guys in PF don't talk so good about SIG Sauer pistol quality since the US manager took command. That also contributed to his choice.)
Regarding the why
I suppose, the reason is ROI maximization for the stock owners. And connected with that: Optimization of price/performance ratio. This applies to the US and now to Germany. The Chinese work for less money, are eager and learn quick. When my former Chinese co-worker and I had a dispute ten years or so ago, he told me Germans are lazy. I would not say so, but probably we want a better work/life balance. I suppose in a few decades, the Chinese want that, too.
I'm afraid German manufacturing and mechanical engineering is declining. Important example: Kuka, the former German manufacturer of world class industrial robots used in the Porsche plant for example, was sold to the Chinese. Our government does intervene in too many ways into the economy. But they did not keep Kuka in German hands, I wish they had.
Last edited by P30; 06-25-2022 at 11:17 AM.
Why are we using Swedish AT weapons, basing our new Frigates on a European design and equipping our ships with Norwegian missiles? Our new jet trainer is combo US/Swedish plane. Another proposed one might end up being Korean. The current Navy jet trainer was a UK design and the Harriers were also. Why do we use the 9mm?
Why did we put a British Merlin engine in the P-51?
Why do I eat Swiss cheese and Chinese food? Going for a drive in my Subaru. Why do we French kiss as compared to an Iowa kiss? Note Clarence Thomas wants to ban the former's more intense version. We know what he isn't getting.
I think a lot of the foreign weapon design choices, so far as the military, was to send money to allies. I don't think a lot of the small arms choices were truly based on "the best weapon" will win.
That is not germane to the conversation.
The AR-15 is an American weapon, so that's one example.
It's disappointing that design goals of simplicity, modularity, robustness, and reliability have not been used in many other American guns. The S&W TDAs are a good counterexample of these principles in firearms design. That was an easy win for Glock.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Clearly, sir, you have never kissed a cow.
''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein
Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.
Reply With Quote