Frustrated by total lack of academic rigor: gel results particularly .22, .25

[Archer1440]

More than 40 years ago, none other than Jeff Cooper graced us with this bit of advice:

“…carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you“

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen a .22lr Hardcast load developed for self defense.

CCI already makes polymer coated lead .22's; a polymer coated hardcast version of the Velocitor would have solid penetration (at least for a .22).

From short barrel handguns the Velocitor doesn't expand so that's basically the same thing.

[awp_101]

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen a .22lr Hardcast load developed for self defense.

Isn't the Federal Punch ammo a hardcast, sort of self defense-ish load?

[revolvergeek]

Isn't the Federal Punch ammo a hardcast, sort of self defense-ish load?

The boxes that I bought seem very soft. Easy to mark with a thumbnail.

[awp_101]

Thanks, it's possible I misunderstood what they're supposed to be or the intended use.

[358156hp]

NOE does list a mould for 22 rimfire, but don't currently have any available. For some reason, as I read this thread I thought of Elmer Keiths writings, and his dislike for 22 LR. He felt that the .25 Stevens should have made the 22 LR obsolete long, long ago.

That would be a game changer.

[revolvergeek]

Thanks, it's possible I misunderstood what they're supposed to be or the intended use.

Myself also. I expected the bullets to be much harder than they are. These seem
Softer than stingers or velocitors.

[revolvergeek]

NOE does list a mould for 22 rimfire, but don't currently have any available. For some reason, as I read this thread I thought of Elmer Keiths writings, and his dislike for 22 LR. He felt that the .25 Stevens should have made the 22 LR obsolete long, long ago.

That would be a game changer.

Personally I think a modern 7mm version of the 25 Stevens Long Rimfire based on the .27 cal Winchester nail gun round would make a better snubby round than any of the 22 LR or Mag loads we have now.

[spyderco monkey]

Isn't the Federal Punch ammo a hardcast, sort of self defense-ish load?

Sadly as others have mentioned, the .22 Punch is actually pretty soft.

It gets deep penetration in gel because they have shortened the projectile enough that it travels straight without tumbling. It’s the tumbling that typically robs most .22lr of the energy to reach 12”; in most gel tests you’ll see the bullet ends up backwards from tumbling.

Hard cast would be to have it resist pancaking when impacting bone; pretty surprising they didn’t make the Punch hard cast. Or use a real copper jacket FMJ as was done in WW2 for the OSS .22 ammo for use in the high standard assassin pistols.

Punch is actually so soft that it expands when fired from a 10/22 into gel:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...imfire-report/

[the Schwartz]

In general, at realistic ''mouse gun'' velocities for a .22LR 40-grain LRN (@865 fps) and a .25ACP 50-grain FMJRN (@720 fps), if—and that's a big 'if'—the bullets do not deform and remain nose-forward throughout the entire penetration event,

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen a .22lr Hardcast load developed for self defense.

CCI already makes polymer coated lead .22's; a polymer coated hardcast version of the Velocitor would have solid penetration (at least for a .22).

In cases where the effect of yaw is to be minimized, a bullet having a meplat that is at least ⅓ the diameter of the bullet should be sufficient to eliminate overturning of the bullet. Since there are few options for casting bullets and loading them into .22 rimfire ammunition, the best commercial option that I can think of is the CCI .22LR 40-grain SGB.

From a 3½'' barrel pistol, velocity would be on the order of 850 fps.

Stable ''straight line'' penetration of the CCI .22LR 40-grain SGB would be modeled as:

Q-model: 22.2 inches
mTHOR: 20.9 inches
MacPherson WTI: 20.3 inches