The “I need a .45 but do I need a 1911?” thread

[sharps54]

First off, that E series pistol does have front strap checkering. Your spreadsheet shows that it doesn’t.

I personally think that front strap checkering on a 1911 is a VERY desirable feature. Strongly consider it.

Second, you are shopping for a target gun, but have selected combat models with fixed sights. That’s not a deal breaker, but is not ideal when zeroing for different ammo. WWB 230 gr ball ammo may very well hit differently than the Federal equivalent. Bowling pins are narrow targets.

I’m not a lefty, but if I was I would not buy a pistol without ambi safeties. But I would trade this off to get front strap checkering.


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@RJ is there a reason you are discounting the Ruger Target with the adjustable sights and factory ambi safety? Have you heard something bad about them?

Edit to add I’m with @That Guy on front strap checkering, it’s nice but you can always put skateboard tape on there to get the same effect.

[RJ]

@RJ is there a reason you are discounting the Ruger Target with the adjustable sights and factory ambi safety? Have you heard something bad about them?

Edit to add I’m with @That Guy on front strap checkering, it’s nice but you can always put skateboard tape on there to get the same effect.

Is that a model 6736?

*checks Ruger web site*

Faaaaaaaa...$1,229? Woah.

I hadn’t considered the Target because I assumed it was way outside my price range. Ambi/adjustable sights + Ruger + Stainless at a bit over $1k...that is a powerful combination. I may have to dig into the couch cushions to see if I can stretch my budget a bit.

[RJ]

Ok, I went to two local gun shops here in Northern Michigan today to check out 1911s.

Shop 1 had four or five, one was a used RIA Ultra Match in 10mm at $679. I fiddled with it a bit and was impressed. Ambi Safety was smooth operating, and clicked on and off crisply. He also had a Kimber in .45, but I have some recollection of folks posting of their issues with Kimber.

Shop 2 only had one, a rental RIA Rock Standard. It had the very plain wood grips, and felt fairly um I dunno, unrefined? Hard to say. They had this one marked at $549.

But: Shop 2 also had a rental range, max 10 yards. I plan to return and shoot the RIA, probably next week. I’ll bring my Glock 34 for a comparison, inasmuch as I am pretty familiar with it. Will be back with a range report when complete.

[OlongJohnson]

I’ll bring my Glock 34 for a comparison, inasmuch as I am pretty familiar with it. Will be back with a range report when complete.

Does 180gr .40 move the pins well enough to contemplate just getting a G35?

-----------------

Let's go down the ammo rabbit hole.

Do people load up 250gr loads in .45 to have extra momentum? Gets into .45 Super territory pretty quickly with the reduction in case volume, but would be workable with a USP.

What projectiles are preferred? Hardcast? JHP? FMJ? Does a broad flat point or JHP work better on angled impacts than a round nose?

Seems like more deformable would transfer momentum more effectively. At .45 velocity, heavy-for-caliber and just hard enough to avoid leading would be the way to go. Or am I not thinking about that the right way?

[SecondsCount]

What were the sights like on the RIA? If they are GI style minimal sights, you may be disappointed.

Some people really like their RIA but the early models that I saw had some fitment issues and a lot of small part breakages. I would look at Tisas before going Rock Island as the one I saw looked a little better finished.

Gunbroker listing for a Desert Eagle Blem with Rail, Adj sights $659

[RJ]

Does 180gr .40 move the pins well enough to contemplate just getting a G35?

-----------------

Let's go down the ammo rabbit hole.

Do people load up 250gr loads in .45 to have extra momentum? Gets into .45 Super territory pretty quickly with the reduction in case volume, but would be workable with a USP.

What projectiles are preferred? Hardcast? JHP? FMJ? Does a broad flat point or JHP work better on angled impacts than a round nose?

Seems like more deformable would transfer momentum more effectively. At .45 velocity, heavy-for-caliber and just hard enough to avoid leading would be the way to go. Or am I not thinking about that the right way?

I can offer a contrast with .45 ACP, but in 9mm, not .40.

For one of the "Events" I entered, I used my P365X carry gun. It has a HS 407k. I had been told that 9mm does not have the power factor to blast the pins off the table, but hey, it was what I brought. I loaded the zippiest stuff I had, which was Speer Gold Dot 124+p, and stepped to the line.

This run is typical. Five rounds, five hits. The pins were mostly just knocked over; I had to continue shooting in order to attempt to get them off the table completely to score. This run was a "15.0" i.e. failed to knock pins off table.




In terms of bullet type, I was advised that the flat profile of hollow points would bite into the pins, so a hit on a pin would tend to not just glance off. Compare the 9mm run above with this one I posted in the earlier part of this thread, copied again for convenience. Here I was shooting Mas's SA TGO II with JHP +p .45 (Winchester, I believe).



Notice when I hit ("when" lol) the pins, they pop off the table fairly smartly. This is what you have to do to score well. IIRC this is one of the runs where I did fairly well, i.e. about 7.5s, with two misses. The match winner was averaging 5.7s per table.

So not being a .40 shooter I'm not sure where it would fall, but one suspects a hot .40 out of a G35 would be more effective than a 9mm HP, but perhaps less effective than a .45? I dunno.

Most everyone was shooting a 5" 1911 in .45, but that may have more to do with demographics / tradition than analytics as to what ammo/gun is most effective. While the shooting problem is not complex, the scoring is such you just can't miss any pins really, despite getting one table out of six as a Mulligan.

[RJ]

Jumping on board.

I need want a 1911 to shoot in this competition: www.thepinshoot.com.

Here’s me last week...

...

Just wanted to correct the above web site URL, my bad.

The actual pin shoot web site is:

www.pinshoot.com

Sorry about that.

[RJ]

What were the sights like on the RIA? If they are GI style minimal sights, you may be disappointed.

The Pro ULTRA had a decent FO front and two dot white adjustable rear. The Rock Standard had fixed two dot rear and a plain blade front.

At this point shooting the RIA is for research purposes only. I am not seriously considering it. I’ve seen a video where Paul Harrell compares a RIA with his Colt, and the RIA has some feeding issues with HP. I would vastly prefer not to buy a gun that’s finicky shooting anything other than ball ammo since I plan to use HP at pin shoots. Vetting hollow point brands would be...expensive.

[DDTSGM]

Is that a model 6736?

*checks Ruger web site*

Faaaaaaaa...$1,229? Woah.

I hadn’t considered the Target because I assumed it was way outside my price range. Ambi/adjustable sights + Ruger + Stainless at a bit over $1k...that is a powerful combination. I may have to dig into the couch cushions to see if I can stretch my budget a bit.

Not sure what the issue is with price - three of the five pistols on your sheet come in at that or more when factoring $300.00 for ambi safety install.

[Exiledviking]

Does 180gr .40 move the pins well enough to contemplate just getting a G35?

-----------------

Let's go down the ammo rabbit hole.

Do people load up 250gr loads in .45 to have extra momentum? Gets into .45 Super territory pretty quickly with the reduction in case volume, but would be workable with a USP.

What projectiles are preferred? Hardcast? JHP? FMJ? Does a broad flat point or JHP work better on angled impacts than a round nose?

Seems like more deformable would transfer momentum more effectively. At .45 velocity, heavy-for-caliber and just hard enough to avoid leading would be the way to go. Or am I not thinking about that the right way?

Mr. Ayoob said in his great book about shooting bowling pins, Hit the White Part, that bowling pins "is pure momentum impact."

I've been shooting the local bowling pin match for close to 10 years and I have to agree with Mr. Ayoob.
The heavier bullets in larger caliber do better at knocking the pins off the table.

My best, balanced (taking recoil into account), load for knocking the pins off the table is a .45 Colt 300 gr JSP bullet over some Titegroup at around 850 FPS.

After that the .45 ACP 230 gr JHP seems the best. One of the guys runs 255 gr SWC in his .45 ACP CZ 97B and that load hits with more authority than the 230 gr bullets.

So, while a .40 caliber like a G35 would certainly work, you'd want at least a warm 180 gr JHP load to knock the pins off the table. IME, and personally seeing people try different combinations and calibers, the overall winning combo is large bore with heavy bullets.

My wife does quite well with a .357 Mag revolver running 180 gr pugnose WFN bullet at roughly 1000 FPS.
However, because the match is set up so that everyone can have a good time, with calibers less than .40 we set the pins in the middle of the table. This allows people to shoot 9mm and at least be competitive. FWIW, we start the match with .22LR pistols and the pins are set at the very back of the table where it's easier to knock the pins off the table. With .40 and above cals the pins are set at the front of the table.

So, the Easy button is a .45 ACP with 230 JHP ammo.