The “I need a .45 but do I need a 1911?” thread

[OlongJohnson]

Anyone with previous experience with one of these?

Not one of those, but IME, S&W is the Brandon of firearms manufacturers. Never underestimate it's ability to f things up.

I can't remember inspecting a new production gun from them any time in the past seven years that didn't have some obvious flaw that shouldn't have made it out of the factory. I've received three guns that were not able to be used at all as shipped by the factory, and one that was fundamentally screwed up but could be used. One got returned to the seller, and it appeared that they inspected their entire inventory of that SKU and sent the lot of them back to S&W, presumably with the same problem. One was an SD9VE that failed in a way that could have deadlined it in the middle of a gunfight. It also had another amazing problem (striker was bent along its whole length like a banana) that I assume was causing light strikes, which is why it was so cheap with the appearance of so few rounds through it. At least they shipped me parts for free. Two went back home. Of those, one was returned with paperwork saying it was fixed but it wasn't fixed. Follow-up phone call revealed S&W didn't have inventory of the part that needed to be replaced, so the gun was a paperweight. The other one came back with the original problem fixed but new amazingly bad gunplumbing having been inflicted on it.

At this point, I don't really care what they build. It's on the do not buy list.

[SecondsCount]

I have a good friend who has carried an E series 1911 for about 10 years. We have shot in matches together several times and it has always run well.

My only issue with them is the external extractor, but that is mainly because it is a proprietary item. I can purchase internal extractors from a dozen different sources but the external version has to come from S&W. If they ever decide to cease production, like they did with the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen autos, parts become much harder to get. For added insurance against this, you could buy a couple spares right off the bat and be good for many years.

[RJ]

Not one of those, but IME, S&W is the Brandon of firearms manufacturers. Never underestimate it's ability to f things up.

I can't remember inspecting a new production gun from them any time in the past seven years that didn't have some obvious flaw that shouldn't have made it out of the factory. I've received three guns that were not able to be used at all as shipped by the factory, and one that was fundamentally screwed up but could be used. One got returned to the seller, and it appeared that they inspected their entire inventory of that SKU and sent the lot of them back to S&W, presumably with the same problem. One was an SD9VE that failed in a way that could have deadlined it in the middle of a gunfight. It also had another amazing problem (striker was bent along its whole length like a banana) that I assume was causing light strikes, which is why it was so cheap with the appearance of so few rounds through it. At least they shipped me parts for free. Two went back home. Of those, one was returned with paperwork saying it was fixed but it wasn't fixed. Follow-up phone call revealed S&W didn't have inventory of the part that needed to be replaced, so the gun was a paperweight. The other one came back with the original problem fixed but new amazingly bad gunplumbing having been inflicted on it.

At this point, I don't really care what they build. It's on the do not buy list.

Oof. Thanks.

Slight thread diversion: This S&W experience is reflected in my attempting to purchase a lightweight .38 revolver a few year ago. I tried out numerous examples of J-frames from Smith, all of which felt "creepy" and ill-finished to my very inexperienced hands. I ended up buying a fell-out-of-the-ugly-tree-and-hit-every-branch Ruger LCR, which has worked perfectly for me ever since. This is another reason I like the Ruger 1911; previous positive experience.

I did end up putting all these options into a spreadsheet. My weighted evaluation scores aren't important, but in the event someone else is pondering a 1911 at the same price point, the upper part, with all the features cross compared is snapped below.




Barring any other pop up options, right now I probably have enough info to go gun shopping. If ya'll see any key aspect of this that I'm missing, lemme know. I don't know what I don't know.

The eventual purchase will likely depend on what's available, obviously. I'm probably leaning towards the Colt or Ruger, with the Colt being number 1. I'll keep an open mind on used options as well, and won't pass up a good opportunity to snag a decent working example, especially guns which are higher price point new but inside my mythical $1K budget.

[Bucky]

Another to add to the list of $1K MSRP 1911's - S&W E Series?

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...ies?sku=108482

Attachment 90525

MSRP of $1,037 for sku 108482, so it fits in with my target budget. No Ambi safety, but I can get around that; like all the other non-ambi options, I would just run it for a while as is and if things worked out, as a lefty I would get it fitted later, deferring that cost to down the road. Per the above discussion, the spec sheet says "titanium firing pin" which I infer means it is a Series 70 design. Steel three dot sights. Stainless with wood laminate grips; so BBQ gun factor would be high.

Anyone with previous experience with one of these?

Never had an E series, but after the experience I had with my Smith 1911, I'd never buy another. YMMV.

[45dotACP]

Oof. Thanks.

Slight thread diversion: This S&W experience is reflected in my attempting to purchase a lightweight .38 revolver a few year ago. I tried out numerous examples of J-frames from Smith, all of which felt "creepy" and ill-finished to my very inexperienced hands. I ended up buying a fell-out-of-the-ugly-tree-and-hit-every-branch Ruger LCR, which has worked perfectly for me ever since. This is another reason I like the Ruger 1911; previous positive experience.

I did end up putting all these options into a spreadsheet. My weighted evaluation scores aren't important, but in the event someone else is pondering a 1911 at the same price point, the upper part, with all the features cross compared is snapped below.




Barring any other pop up options, right now I probably have enough info to go gun shopping. If ya'll see any key aspect of this that I'm missing, lemme know. I don't know what I don't know.

The eventual purchase will likely depend on what's available, obviously. I'm probably leaning towards the Colt or Ruger, with the Colt being number 1. I'll keep an open mind on used options as well, and won't pass up a good opportunity to snag a decent working example, especially guns which are higher price point new but inside my mythical $1K budget.

Honestly I'd probably go with the Ruger just by virtue of the plunger tube being a part of the frame and not staked on

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[RJ]

Honestly I'd probably go with the Ruger just by virtue of the plunger tube being a part of the frame and not staked on

Thanks.

For the sake of me and anyone else who has no clue what this means, can you explain (briefly) why this is important?

[45dotACP]

Thanks.

For the sake of me and anyone else who has no clue what this means, can you explain (briefly) why this is important?

Tl;DR version: A wiggly plunger tube causes problems with getting the thumb safety permanently stuck in the "on" position if not correctly installed, and a lot of companies don't correctly install them. Just one more thing to fix usually.

Longer version: Lots of 1911 guys will only buy grips if they "support the plunger tube" so that the plunger tube is less likely to get knocked loose. It allows you to buy basically whatever kinda grips you want if the plunger tube is integral to the frame.

[john c]

Oof. Thanks.

Slight thread diversion: This S&W experience is reflected in my attempting to purchase a lightweight .38 revolver a few year ago. I tried out numerous examples of J-frames from Smith, all of which felt "creepy" and ill-finished to my very inexperienced hands. I ended up buying a fell-out-of-the-ugly-tree-and-hit-every-branch Ruger LCR, which has worked perfectly for me ever since. This is another reason I like the Ruger 1911; previous positive experience.

I did end up putting all these options into a spreadsheet. My weighted evaluation scores aren't important, but in the event someone else is pondering a 1911 at the same price point, the upper part, with all the features cross compared is snapped below.




Barring any other pop up options, right now I probably have enough info to go gun shopping. If ya'll see any key aspect of this that I'm missing, lemme know. I don't know what I don't know.

The eventual purchase will likely depend on what's available, obviously. I'm probably leaning towards the Colt or Ruger, with the Colt being number 1. I'll keep an open mind on used options as well, and won't pass up a good opportunity to snag a decent working example, especially guns which are higher price point new but inside my mythical $1K budget.

First off, that E series pistol does have front strap checkering. Your spreadsheet shows that it doesn’t.

I personally think that front strap checkering on a 1911 is a VERY desirable feature. Strongly consider it.

Second, you are shopping for a target gun, but have selected combat models with fixed sights. That’s not a deal breaker, but is not ideal when zeroing for different ammo. WWB 230 gr ball ammo may very well hit differently than the Federal equivalent. Bowling pins are narrow targets.

I’m not a lefty, but if I was I would not buy a pistol without ambi safeties. But I would trade this off to get front strap checkering.


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[LockedBreech]

For what it's worth, I'm getting a Smith E-Series 1911 (108482LE) next month. It's for personal reasons related to a case I worked with a few good LEOs who got shot at, plus I was able to get LE pricing on it ($803 after tax and shipping.)

So I will report back my experiences. Here's hoping I end up in the "yay" camp, especially since I bought four Wilson HD +P magazines, 500 rounds of Norma FMJ, four boxes of 230-grain Gold Dot, and a Mitch Rosen holster for it, and not the "screw these forever" camp, but we shall see. I'll report honestly, regardless.

[That Guy]

For the sake of me and anyone else who has no clue what this means, can you explain (briefly) why this is important?

A loose plunger tube can, as explained, cause an issue by interfering with the movement of the thumb the safety. Stocks that support the tube are a partial help, but if the plunger tube in your gun comes loose it really does need to be re-staked. With the proper tool this is very easy to do, but you do need to notice the issue in time and you'll need the proper tool.

I'm afraid it's one of the weaknesses of the 1911 design. I would recommend checking the plunger tube as part of a normal cleaning and maintenance routine.

I personally think that front strap checkering on a 1911 is a VERY desirable feature. Strongly consider it.

A bit of grip tape works as a cheap fix. I don't see front checkering being that important. Aside from being more aesthetically pleasing than tape on the grip, of course.