The “I need a .45 but do I need a 1911?” thread

[RJ]

Well this finally came up on my "to do" list...

My Challis order arrived today.


I used the bushing removal tool to remove and replace the Springfield "thin" bushings for Challis "Normal" bushings. I secured the tool per the directions, with a standard size grip screw. Running the rod out to the end, I applied light and then medium steady pressure, until I felt the bushing move slightly. Then it just twisted out. Rinse, repeat for the other three. I checked for staking (none seen), and evidence of thread locker (not that I can tell, see below?)


Replacement was very drama-free; just ensure the new bushings were square, and not cross threaded. They required a little coaxing to get past initial take up but threaded smoothly. I checked with Challis web site and torqued the bushings dry to a bit less than 25 in lbs, and the grip screws (Challis, flat head) to a bit less than 10 in lbs. I opted to purchase O-rings for both the bushing to grip interface and grip screw to grip interface.

I had tried the standard grips with the Springfield bushings, but the results were very unsatisfactory. Tightening the grip screws down, there was no support for the grip screw head; and especially if I ended up shooting the gun that way (so I didn't.) The Springfield bushings are only about 0.017" above the boss of the bushing to "catch" the grip material. When placed on the frame on the slim bushings, the normal grips moved around, quite a bit.

The standard Challis Hex drive bushings stand 0.070" above the boss. The new bushings interlock very well with the normal size grips; I would not use standard grips with slim bushings; at least the ones on this gun, that's for sure. Perhaps the Garrison bushings are specced to match the very thin wood grips it comes with? I dunno. Anyway, I am very pleased with the final result. The new full size grips are extremely secure on the bushing posts, and do not move (at all).

I really really really like this Challis tool, it is amazingly effective. Trigger reach is still fine; but there is obviously a lot more purchase on the gun at both the grip tape and grip texture lock into my hands.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm getting a weird hankering for a Sig 220 for some reason.

[CSW]

Well done.
It is a great tool.
Something every 1911 owner should have.

[Robinson]

Well done.
It is a great tool.
Something every 1911 owner should have.

Indeed.

[Trooper224]

Congrats on conquering the grip bushings. I've come to view slim bushings as things the universe has put into place to vex me. Even with a tool like the Challis, success is rare for me.

[HeavyDuty]

I'm getting a weird hankering for a Sig 220 for some reason.

I’ve enjoyed mine for a decade or more.

[Evil_Ed]

I'm getting a weird hankering for a Sig 220 for some reason.

I kind of went in on P220s a while ago...



From top left: Sig P220 Compact (the "updated" version of the P245), Sig P320 in 45acp (unicorn when I got it, still rare today - I know it's not a P220, but it is a 45), P220 in 10mm
Bottom left: Sig P220 SBSS - steel frame...and your bog standard early 2000s P220, folded slide - that one has a Sig 22lr kit with threaded barrel on it which is apparently a rarity as well...

The 22lr kit and the P220 Compact came from CDNN, so yeah, Sig was blowing them out..

The P220 Compact as compared to a Detonics CombatMaster:



Anyway...the steel framed P220 shoots fairly softly for a P220. The big problem I ever had with them - Shoot them for a bit, then shoot a 1911. Then wonder why you're bothering with a 220...the DA/SA and decocker make it really palatable for me, but it really doesn't shoot as well as a 1911 - for me, YMMV.

I say all this, as I still have a pile of them that I take out and shoot now and again anyway

[HeavyDuty]

I once lusted for a P245, and never heard of the P220 Compact before. This is dangerous knowledge.

[Evil_Ed]

I once lusted for a P245, and never heard of the P220 Compact before. This is dangerous knowledge.

Well, you're in luck; Sig stopped making them and both the gun and mags are unobtanium right now. So you won't be tempted

Honestly - I've never had a problem with the compact and it's got at least 800 rounds on it. The compact, the SBSS, and the 10mm all got GrayGuns spring kits and their standard DA/SA trigger installed in them (from back when the Sig Legion was all new and using Gray Guns parts), and all of them have fantastic triggers, both DA and SA. I spent a summer rotating between the full size and the compact (and at one point I had a "standard"/later P220, with the milled stainless slide and alloy frame as usual).

The only times I ever had a problem were with my reloads, with slightly proud primers. First hammer strike wouldn't set them off; a restrike would. I thought it was the gun/spring kits for a while, but then I ran the rest of that batch through a 1911 and the same thign happened; found it was the ammo...an adjustment had gone out apparently. Fixed my primer seating, and all was well from then on out.

If I decided to start carrying the compact today, I wouldn't feel bad about it. I'm just really glad I stocked up on spare mags while I could...

[Chuck Whitlock]

I had tried the standard grips with the Springfield bushings, but the results were very unsatisfactory. Tightening the grip screws down, there was no support for the grip screw head; and especially if I ended up shooting the gun that way (so I didn't.) The Springfield bushings are only about 0.017" above the boss of the bushing to "catch" the grip material. When placed on the frame on the slim bushings, the normal grips moved around, quite a bit.

The standard Challis Hex drive bushings stand 0.070" above the boss. The new bushings interlock very well with the normal size grips; I would not use standard grips with slim bushings; at least the ones on this gun, that's for sure. Perhaps the Garrison bushings are specced to match the very thin wood grips it comes with? I dunno. Anyway, I am very pleased with the final result. The new full size grips are extremely secure on the bushing posts, and do not move (at all).

I wonder if the factory grips/bushings are from Altamont.

I ran across the quote below on the Harrison Custom website, and was not aware of the issue before:

FITTING COMPATABILITY ADVISE -
There are basically two versions of slim grips, those made by Altamont and those made by "Everyone Else". The Altamont grips are commonly found on some factory slim grip installations on Les Baer and Colt pistols. They are also found in the aftermarket. The Altamont grips, screws and bushings are of dimensions that are not compatible with any made by "Everyone Else".
To identify Altamont grips, you can remove one of your screws and measure the OD of the head of the screw. Altamont screws measure .310" and "Everyone Else" screw heads measure .270". If you want to install a set of my slim Carry Groove grips on a pistol with the Altamont screws and bushings, you will need to replace the factory screws and bushings with either my HD-317 (blue) or HD-318 (S/S) screw and bushing set.