New FBI info, Active Shooters

[GyroF-16]

The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that there's no acknowledgement of the change in standard from four dead to three dead. (As if that wasn't already clear.) From the discussion in the report, as limited as it is, one might reasonably gather that there was no definition until Congress passed that law in 2013. Accordingly, the authors fail to caution the reader about comparing the numbers in these reports to earlier literature that used a more restrictive criteria. The obvious result is that studies using a criteria of three dead will count many more events than studies using a criteria of four dead, which was the working standard for criminological studies from at least as far back as 1986 until 2013, and continues to be used by many analysts.

I’d suggest that there’s an even greater potential for over-reporting if the criteria used to be “4 dead, not including the shooter” and seems to have evolved to “3 dead, and shooter may be included.” Under the more “inclusive” standard, a gunman need only kill two others and then shoot himself or be shot by cops / armed Good Samaritans. That seems pretty different from “a bad guy killed 4 or more people”.
I understand that the FBI report being discussed may provide a better filter - I’m just concerned at the methodology for counting and reporting “mass shootings” to the masses.

[BehindBlueI's]

I’d suggest that there’s an even greater potential for over-reporting if the criteria used to be “4 dead, not including the shooter” and seems to have evolved to “3 dead, and shooter may be included.” Under the more “inclusive” standard, a gunman need only kill two others and then shoot himself or be shot by cops / armed Good Samaritans. That seems pretty different from “a bad guy killed 4 or more people”.
I understand that the FBI report being discussed may provide a better filter - I’m just concerned at the methodology for counting and reporting “mass shootings” to the masses.

Suicide doesn't count as a homicide in NIBRS.

Technically, the shooter isn't counted in the initial report if he's killed. Well, he is as the suspect but not as a death. There should be a second report if cops/good samaritans shoot the bad guy. Bad guy is now the "victim" of the homicide, but reason is "felon killed by (cop/citizen)" and it's not counted as a Murder. Then the first case gets cleared as Exceptionally Cleared - Death of Offender.

[OlongJohnson]

I’d suggest that there’s an even greater potential for over-reporting if the criteria used to be “4 dead, not including the shooter” and seems to have evolved to “3 dead, and shooter may be included.” Under the more “inclusive” standard, a gunman need only kill two others and then shoot himself or be shot by cops / armed Good Samaritans. That seems pretty different from “a bad guy killed 4 or more people”.
I understand that the FBI report being discussed may provide a better filter - I’m just concerned at the methodology for counting and reporting “mass shootings” to the masses.

What Mother Jones or Demanding Moms count and disseminate is another matter, and not really what we're discussing here.

These reports are counting "active shooter" events, not "mass shooter" events. The "mass killings" are a subset which they are careful to report.

They are not counting the shooters in the casualties reported, which is pointed out wherever relevant in each report.