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Thread: HYDROGEN FUELED

  1. #31
    https://www.smart-energy.com/industr...ehicles/?amp=1

    Toyota is to pilot its second generation Mirai fuel cell electric vehicle on Indian roads and climatic conditions.


    The minister anticipates that green hydrogen powered transportation is going to be a key technology option for the future with application especially across bigger cars, buses, trucks, ships and trains and best suited for medium to long distances

    Our government reminds me of IBM who I had a good bit of experience with managing contracts for. Too big, too slow, entrenched, and always thought throwing money at problems could fix them. The main difference is IBM couldn't maintain their ineptness forever.
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  2. #32
    Site Supporter RoyGBiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    They are solvable problems, but I don't see them being solved with major government intervention.
    I'm 1000% with you that government picking winners is a powerful disturbance in the natural selection /capitalist process (acknowledged that you didn't say this).
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyGBiv View Post
    I'm 1000% with you that government picking winners is a powerful disturbance in the natural selection /capitalist process (acknowledged that you didn't say this).
    Those agencies have to justify their yearly budget. I wonder who the idiots were that thought multi hour refueling, materials sourced offshore with a significant environmental and human negative influence and disposal issues to name a few was a great idea that Americans would buy into.
    Oh wait yes the same people who are trying to force us into electric vehicles by supporting outrageous fuel cost. With a product thats not even available or affordable. Oh yeah thats why the automaker's want a $12000 tax incentive per vehicle made at USA union plants that doesnt have an expiration after xxxxxx amount of vehicles.
    Last edited by UNK; 06-14-2022 at 08:21 PM.
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  4. #34
    Isnt the real problem all natural resources that require mining/drilling/fracking the govt wants to move away from?
    That would rule out natural gas and I would think batteries.
    If we are going to mention the resources to implement something then putting a charger for every vehicle is a problem. Not only will it take a licensed electrician to run the wiring theres also the issue in older homes that the existing service is not sufficient. Even in newer homes a lot of times there is only the bare minimum 2 slots available which would only support one charger. You could set a sub panel and feed two chargers but then you would have to recalculate the primary feed. Then what about families that have multiple vehicles like for high school kids or work and transportation? Try to call and schedule virtually any trade for work now and you are looking at weeks if not months for the work to be done.
    Outside of that the effective range is a killer.
    And the grid.
    This seems like a plan that needs a comprehensive decade(s) long approach, which seems to be non existent.
    Making people pay for it at the pump/grocery/utilities is not going to get you re elected. This really needs to be as painless for the average person as possible.



    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    They are solvable problems, but I don't see them being solved with major government intervention. Yes, the oil/gas industry has hard 100+ years of government subsidies and interventions (up to and including foreign wars). And the EV industry has enjoyed massive subsidies over the last 10 or so years. So it is possible. But Japan has been pushing hydrogen hard since the 90s and it still hasn't penciled out - this in a country that imports all of its oil (and went to war with the USA due to the fragility of that oil dependence).

    Generally something needs to be 20% better for the market to adopt it. Hydrogen is better in some ways & worse in others. It'll certainly look more appealing if we stop subsidizing oil and people start paying the true cost of gasoline, but the masses won't tolerate that (at least not suddenly).

    CNG actually looks a lot more attractive to me for immediate implementation nearly nation-wide. There is much better existing infrastructure and the economics of it are less bad (compared to subsidized gasoline). Unfortunately, Honda stopped selling the CNG Civic GX in 2015. It cost ~$5,000 more than a gasoline civic, but CNG is cheaper. You can even buy compressing equipment to fill it from your own home's existing natural gas. Still, $5,000 buys a lot of gasoline so the number of miles you'd have to drive to make the CNG Civic pay off purely economically:

    2000: 265,000 miles (30mpg gasoline @ $1.52 vs 28mpge CNG @ $0.89)
    2005: 500,000 miles (32mpg gasoline @ $2.11 vs 28mpge CNG @ $1.56)
    2010: 241,000 miles (31mpg gasoline @ $2.78 vs 28mpge CNG @ $1.93)
    2015: 487,000 miles (32mpg gasoline @ $2.82 vs 28mpge CNG @ $2.18)

    Today's price: 62,500 miles (33mpg gasoline @ $5.00 vs 28mpge CNG @ $2.00)
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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by runcible View Post
    For clarity, are you conflating hydrogen with tritium and/or deuterium, as might be used in the core-fill of a multi-stage thermonuke?

    (Mind you, metalized hydrogen would call for quite the containment vessel and a hell of a fail-safe mechanism...)
    I may be mixing up deuterium with lithium hydride.

  6. #36
    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/15/...n-project.html

    Oil giant BP buys 40.5% stake in massive renewables and green hydrogen project
    PUBLISHED WED, JUN 15 2022
    BP says it will become operator of the development, adding that it has "the potential to be one of the largest renewables and green hydrogen hubs in the world."
    Hydrogen, which has a diverse range of applications and can be deployed in a wide range of industries, can be produced in a number of ways.
    The other shareholders in the Asian Renewable Energy Hub are InterContinental Energy, CWP Global and Macquarie Capital and Macquarie's Green Investment Group.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia...ble_Energy_Hub

    https://intercontinentalenergy.com/

    https://www.cwp.global/cwp-renewables-australia/

    https://www.cwp.global/

    https://www.macquarie.com/au/en/abou...e-capital.html
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/15/...n-project.html

    Oil giant BP buys 40.5% stake in massive renewables and green hydrogen project
    PUBLISHED WED, JUN 15 2022
    BP says it will become operator of the development, adding that it has "the potential to be one of the largest renewables and green hydrogen hubs in the world."
    Hydrogen, which has a diverse range of applications and can be deployed in a wide range of industries, can be produced in a number of ways.
    The other shareholders in the Asian Renewable Energy Hub are InterContinental Energy, CWP Global and Macquarie Capital and Macquarie's Green Investment Group.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia...ble_Energy_Hub

    https://intercontinentalenergy.com/

    https://www.cwp.global/cwp-renewables-australia/

    https://www.cwp.global/

    https://www.macquarie.com/au/en/abou...e-capital.html
    What are the odds BP actually develops that sector if the industry or if it just gives it the ol Cinderella treatment and does their level best to keep their stepchild in the attic and away from the rest of the world?

    Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

  8. #38
    Anecdote Alert:

    Some years ago a greenie was telling an Arab that solar power would supplant fossil fuels.
    The Arab said "This is not a problem for us, who has more sunshine than Arabia?"

    Heinlein devised the Shipstone ultra high capacity electrical storage device in 'Friday'. Mrs Shipstone told Mr Shipstone to not patent his invention, which would have required disclosure of its operation, but to keep it a trade secret, backed up by tamperproof construction, it would blow up if opened.
    The other smart thing was to plow profits into sunny real estate and solar collectors to keep Shipstones charged.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  9. #39
    Site Supporter RoyGBiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    What are the odds BP actually develops that sector if the industry or if it just gives it the ol Cinderella treatment and does their level best to keep their stepchild in the attic and away from the rest of the world?

    Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
    Fossil fuels will eventually be supplanted by renewables. It won't happen as fast as the greenies demand, but it will happen.
    Who better positioned to pick the realities from the fabrications and the hopes from the realities than a major energy supplier?

    I'm not up to speed on the technical facts here, but, my gut says BP is getting in at the middle of the bottom of the hockey stick. Lots of players have thrown money at it that BP won't have to waste. Now that some interesting things are congealing, BP can get in cheap on what seems to be a good starting point.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  10. #40
    From the first link:

    A major producer of oil and gas, BP says it's aiming to become a net-zero company by the year 2050 or before. It's one of many major firms to have made a net-zero pledge in recent years.


    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    What are the odds BP actually develops that sector if the industry or if it just gives it the ol Cinderella treatment and does their level best to keep their stepchild in the attic and away from the rest of the world?

    Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎

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