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Thread: HYDROGEN FUELED

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by UNK View Post
    Im not sure what you mean by illegal what about this?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molt...ver%20operated.
    Not sure where the reactor talk is coming in as I thought the conversation was about hydrogen cars?

    Hydride allows the hydrogen to be stored and distributed much more safely then just a compressed gas.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by beenalongtime View Post
    Not sure where the reactor talk is coming in as I thought the conversation was about hydrogen cars?

    Hydride allows the hydrogen to be stored and distributed much more safely then just a compressed gas.
    Sorry I misunderstood. Yes the convo is about hydrogen and nuclear reactors have been discussed as a way of making hydrogen. But I dont understand the part about illegal or hydride. Can you post some informative links?
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎

  3. #23
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎

  4. #24
    My atomic bombs do not contain gaseous hydrogen. I don't think NFA addresses it.

    I have not seen as much mention of hydride absorption storage lately as I used to. It sure seems better than cryogenic or extra high pressure.

    Hydrogen buffs are assuring us that it is not as dangerous as it sounds, why, it will float away before it burns or blows up, wide flammability range notwithstanding.

    While I was working in coal gasification, one of the contractors was telling us of searching for hydrogen leaks with a broom. Seems that a hot hydrogen leak will usually ignite into an almost invisible flame, so operators would run a broom down a suspected length of pipe so it would be ignited at a leak. We did not have that problem, the CO content of our syngas would color the flame. I do not recall a serious leak anyhow, but the flare stack was blue and yellow.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  5. #25
    Site Supporter RoyGBiv's Avatar
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    Would be interesting to see something with peer review.... but... very interesting to be able to do it at 1 Bar.
    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/e0f...=1654801550186
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyGBiv View Post
    Would be interesting to see something with peer review.... but... very interesting to be able to do it at 1 Bar.
    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/e0f...=1654801550186
    Its on the internet. Dont need no stinkin high falutin peer review! 🤡
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by beenalongtime View Post
    I think it is the whole storage of hydrogen using an illegal substance (nuclear weapon part), thing that makes it problematic.
    For clarity, are you conflating hydrogen with tritium and/or deuterium, as might be used in the core-fill of a multi-stage thermonuke?

    (Mind you, metalized hydrogen would call for quite the containment vessel and a hell of a fail-safe mechanism...)
    Jules
    Runcible Works

  8. #28
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    A new Toyota Mirai costs ~$50,000. A 4 year old Mirai with 20,000 miles costs ~$15,000 ( https://sacramento.craigslist.org/ct...488159409.html )

    What could possibly make a Toyota depreciate like that? Here in alt-fuel utopia, hydrogen costs $16.50 per gallon (equivalent). And even at the Capitol things are bad: there are only 3 hydrogen fueling stations in the Sacramento metro area, but two of them have been broken for over 6 months. It only takes ~5 minutes to fill a tank, but with one remaining station the line sometimes stretches for a dozen or more cars and the station often runs out of hydrogen (making drivers wait hours for it to be refilled).


    And for that hassle & expense, you drive a car with glacial acceleration (9+ seconds to 60mph) and a 300-mile range (400 mile optional). The new $50,000 Mirai does come with 6 years or $15,000 worth of "free" hydrogen, but once that runs out it'll cost about as much in fuel per mile to drive a Mirai as a Tundra (and that is with $6 gasoline)

  9. #29
    Site Supporter RoyGBiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    A new Toyota Mirai costs ~$50,000. A 4 year old Mirai with 20,000 miles costs ~$15,000 ( https://sacramento.craigslist.org/ct...488159409.html )

    What could possibly make a Toyota depreciate like that? Here in alt-fuel utopia, hydrogen costs $16.50 per gallon (equivalent). And even at the Capitol things are bad: there are only 3 hydrogen fueling stations in the Sacramento metro area, but two of them have been broken for over 6 months. It only takes ~5 minutes to fill a tank, but with one remaining station the line sometimes stretches for a dozen or more cars and the station often runs out of hydrogen (making drivers wait hours for it to be refilled).


    And for that hassle & expense, you drive a car with glacial acceleration (9+ seconds to 60mph) and a 300-mile range (400 mile optional). The new $50,000 Mirai does come with 6 years or $15,000 worth of "free" hydrogen, but once that runs out it'll cost about as much in fuel per mile to drive a Mirai as a Tundra (and that is with $6 gasoline)
    After the dozen initial thoughts flashed through my head, I'll boil it down to just a few....

    1. H2 tech is evolving. What you see now as far as performance, fuel costs and infrastructure are FAR from end state.
    2. Everyone has electric to their house, so, you can charge your Tesla, sure, but, it isn't green. It's mostly carbon generation. So... what gets solved by this? Nothing. Just "Feels".
    2a. Not to mention production and recycling costs, life cycle issues and environmental impact of batteries. More "not green".
    3. When CA forces everyone to drive a plug-in e-car, what electricity will be left over to run homes and businesses? And, it's still not green.
    3. How many tax incentives and outright government gifts has the e-car industry enjoyed.? I'll give up on Hydrogen when that amount is spent in H2 and Hydrogen still isn't in the lead.
    4. Technology that has to earn every step usually comes out stronger.
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  10. #30
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    They are solvable problems, but I don't see them being solved with major government intervention. Yes, the oil/gas industry has hard 100+ years of government subsidies and interventions (up to and including foreign wars). And the EV industry has enjoyed massive subsidies over the last 10 or so years. So it is possible. But Japan has been pushing hydrogen hard since the 90s and it still hasn't penciled out - this in a country that imports all of its oil (and went to war with the USA due to the fragility of that oil dependence).

    Generally something needs to be 20% better for the market to adopt it. Hydrogen is better in some ways & worse in others. It'll certainly look more appealing if we stop subsidizing oil and people start paying the true cost of gasoline, but the masses won't tolerate that (at least not suddenly).

    CNG actually looks a lot more attractive to me for immediate implementation nearly nation-wide. There is much better existing infrastructure and the economics of it are less bad (compared to subsidized gasoline). Unfortunately, Honda stopped selling the CNG Civic GX in 2015. It cost ~$5,000 more than a gasoline civic, but CNG is cheaper. You can even buy compressing equipment to fill it from your own home's existing natural gas. Still, $5,000 buys a lot of gasoline so the number of miles you'd have to drive to make the CNG Civic pay off purely economically:

    2000: 265,000 miles (30mpg gasoline @ $1.52 vs 28mpge CNG @ $0.89)
    2005: 500,000 miles (32mpg gasoline @ $2.11 vs 28mpge CNG @ $1.56)
    2010: 241,000 miles (31mpg gasoline @ $2.78 vs 28mpge CNG @ $1.93)
    2015: 487,000 miles (32mpg gasoline @ $2.82 vs 28mpge CNG @ $2.18)

    Today's price: 62,500 miles (33mpg gasoline @ $5.00 vs 28mpge CNG @ $2.00)

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