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Thread: clearing FTF

  1. #21
    The way that I look at this is pretty mainstream, I think: We aren't training for 99%, we are training for 100%, so tap.

    Failures occur in order during the cycle of operation of the pistol. The pistol fails to feed, fails to fire, fails to extract, fails to eject - in that order.

    In teaching the masses, versus teaching the basics to folks who are in the pipeline to 'Tier 1' units, on the way to USPSA C class and above, the goal is to have something that will work every time, is easy to remember and is easy to accomplish.

    Determining whether the pistol has failed to feed or failed to fire during a string of fire is pretty near impossible, the pistol goes click on both of them. The failure to extract and the failure eject usually feel different to the shooter, the trigger is usually dead, no click. The shooter MAY recognize that a double feed fail to extract feels different, or they may recognize the failure to eject by 'hey that was different, nothing hit my face' but we shouldn't assume anything beyond them knowing the pistol doesn't work for the moment.

    What is easiest to remember is gun doesn't go bang we need to do one thing to fix it.

    With the goal of every time all the time the only thing that works is ensuring that another round is loaded into the chamber. and in order to be 100% positive that occurs we need to first make sure that another round is available to be fed into the chamber. The only way to endure that is to make sure the magazine is seated. Actually, the first thing we should do is look to make sure a mag is actually there, but in this conversation, we are talking about a quick, reflexive act which gets us back into the fight immediately.

    So, we are going to make sure the mag is seated by tapping. Remember we aren't training for 99%, we are training for 100%, so tap.

    With that out of the way, the next thing to get the round into the camber is to cycle the action. BUT, on a rare occasion, cycling the action with the pistol upright may not let a case that has failed to eject fall clear. So, in order to ensure the case falls clear we need to roll the pistol so the ejection port is more toward the ground.

    So with TAP, RACK AND ROLL, REASSESS/REENGAGE we should be at 100% every time all of the time with three of the four problems that occur during the pistol's cycle of operation.

    That leads us to the fail to extract. In looking at ways the fail to extract can present itself, I've seen cases stuck in the chamber with the extractor still engaged, cases in the chamber with the slide forward with the extractor nose resting on the case head, and on some occasions, in the classic double-feed. I can use the fingers of one hand to list the number of times I've seen torn case rims.

    If the shooter adopts the strategy of pistol doesn't go bang then immediately tap, rack and roll, reassess, one of three things will happen if there has been a failure to extract: 1) the immediate action will clear the stoppage; 2) the slide will be locked due to the extractor remaining in place on the case rim; 3) the double-feed fail to extract will be set up. Of course, number one is the best outcome.

    If the slide moves the first thing the shooter needs to do is lock it to the rear, remove the magazine and, maintaining a firm grip let the slide go forward, preferably using the slide catch/stop.

    Let's start with locking the slide to the rear. Some folks teach ripping the mag from the pistol with the slide pressure against the round trying to chamber. It's been my experience that a significant number of folks don't have the strength to do this in a fluid motion. Locking the slide to the rear removes that pressure and makes it easier to remove the magazine.

    I prefer to lock the slide to the rear and let the slide go forward under spring pressure rather than immediately 'rack, rack, racking' because I've found that using the slide release allows the recoil spring to impart more impact energy than manually racking the slide.

    Hopefully, we get the pistol's extractor to do something it isn't designed to do, ride over the case head in order to grip the case rim. If it doesn't give it two more tries. After that you need to be looking for a range rod.

    Which brings us to the question 'seriously, you expect me to do this shit in a gun fight?' Only if you don't have another weapon to transition to, and cannot leave.

    If the extractor grabs the rim, the slide may not want to come to the rear. In this case grab the slide in an overhand grip with your support hand, grip as firmly as possibly while taking your strong hand from the pistol and then with master hand extended/open slamming the hand onto the backstrap of the pistol. Slam through the backstrap, your goal is to strip the slide from your support hand grip. Sometimes pistols end up on the ground when doing this maneuver. Hopefully the impact is sufficient to get the case from the chamber. If this doesn't work, you maybe able to use the front corner of your slide against a square edge such as the corner of a brick or board and repeat the process. If you have rear sights such as Heinie Ledges or Dawson Chargers the rear sight can be used in the same manner.

    Anyhow, once the chamber is cleared, reload.

    TL;DR basic primer on malfunction clearance

    Note: I am aware that every time all the time is a redundancy.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  2. #22
    Being a competitor, not a fighter, I have only found a need for TRB on the reload when a stuffed magazine does not get seated to latch up. Lucky me, eh?
    Gaming it on the USPSA range (and now IDPA) I have hand picked magazines with the most slack in the stack for a more certain slide down reload, or for USPSA Classifiers, downloaded by a couple of rounds.

    I went through a spell of feedway jams until I got magazines and ammo sorted out for a cranky gun which brings us down to paragraph ten, more work is required to resume fire.
    M. Ayoob once quoted, without actually recommending, a coach who said to go there immediately, in case of ANY misfunction, RELOAD.
    Drop or remove magazine extract, eject, or shake out loose rounds and brass, insert fresh magazine, chamber a round and shoot.
    Slower than TRB, but quicker than a TRB that does not work and you have to start dumping stuff.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    Obligatory argument from Bill Blowers about the tap being a waste of time.

    Like reloads, Bill argued that stoppages and malfunctions are very rare when shooting a quality gun with quality ammo, duty ammo invariably is. Bill has a somewhat unorthodox view in that he does not see the tap in tap-rack-bang as being strictly necessary, but rather, would prefer to simply just rack for most attempts to clear a simple stoppage.

    From an unpublished AAR of mine.
    With respect to Mr. Blowers, I can duplicate the unseated magazine that doesn't fall free repeatedly in my Gen 5 Glock 19. I've seen it in at least one video from ASP as well that happened to an off duty cop. Based on my experience, I tap. Here's me duplicating the unseated magazine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lozz6AnMDe8

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    If the slide moves the first thing the shooter needs to do is lock it to the rear, remove the magazine and, maintaining a firm grip let the slide go forward, preferably using the slide catch/stop.
    I don't use the slide stop for anything other than to lock the slide open. If the slide is locked open I retract and release it, just like I do any other time I rack the slide (loading, reloading, clearing stoppages). I don't use two different techniques to work the slide.

    If the slide lock inadvertently releases when I seat a magazine, I still rack the slide, as a positive measure to ensure a round has been chambered, and drive-on.

  5. #25
    Rack only unless it is the first round from the mag because the tenths of a second are worth it. Also rack off the front of the slide because it is faster.

    That said if you are not yet dry firing daily or you are an OG with a 1911 with flush base pads then carry on with all the racks.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SMJayman View Post
    With respect to Mr. Blowers, I can duplicate the unseated magazine that doesn't fall free repeatedly in my Gen 5 Glock 19. I've seen it in at least one video from ASP as well that happened to an off duty cop. Based on my experience, I tap. Here's me duplicating the unseated magazine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lozz6AnMDe8
    Does that mag weigh the same as a mag with real rounds?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LukeNCMX View Post
    Rack only unless it is the first round from the mag because the tenths of a second are worth it.
    My first thought is that you waste some amount of time deciding whether or not to tap - 'let's see was the first round after the reload? yep, I'll tap.'

    My second thought is that humans inherently try to do things the easiest way. So pretty soon the default for the average cat is to forget the tap completely because that is the easiest and quickest wat to do it.

    When LE first transitioned to the auto-pistol, the S&W's were very common. As you might be aware, the 39 and 59 series pistols were equipped with a magazine disconnect that wouldn't allow you to fire a chambered round without a magazine in the pistol.

    Initially we taught our students that when doing an in-battery reload don't drop the old mag until the new mag was in hand and on the way to the pistol. With the out-of-battery reloads, we allowed the students to release the magazine immediately, because we thought the tenths of a second were worth it

    It wasn't very long before we discovered that when many of the officers were under any degree of pressure they completely ignored the differences between the in-battery and out-of-battery reloads, immediately releasing the magazine from the pistol regardless of whether the slide was forward or locked back. This left the S&W shooters with a dead pistol for longer than necessary.

    We realized that teaching two ways to do the reload didn't work as intended. We changed to teaching that you never release a magazine from the pistol until it's replacement is in hand and on the way to the pistol - ideally the magazines cross in the air.

    Subsequently, we found that overall reload times didn't vary that much, and neither did the time from the last shot from the old mag to the first shot out of the new mag.

    Lesson learned: try to limit decision points/choices for any rote action you expect to be conducted under stress.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Dodson View Post
    I don't use the slide stop for anything other than to lock the slide open. If the slide is locked open I retract and release it, just like I do any other time I rack the slide (loading, reloading, clearing stoppages). I don't use two different techniques to work the slide.
    I agree in principle, use only one method to avoid suffering the paralysis of analysis.

    The reason that I noted preferably with the slide release is because often folks who grasp the slide overhand and retract and release give a little bit of forward pressure with the frame which means that the frame isn't held as rigidly as it should be to allow the slide to close with maximum force.

    I've seen numerous instances where the extractor wouldn't go over the case head using both the overhand and the sling shot methods, but would when using the slide catch/release. Enough to make me default to that method.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SMJayman View Post
    With respect to Mr. Blowers, I can duplicate the unseated magazine that doesn't fall free repeatedly in my Gen 5 Glock 19. I've seen it in at least one video from ASP as well that happened to an off duty cop. Based on my experience, I tap. Here's me duplicating the unseated magazine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lozz6AnMDe8
    That doesn't take into account the magazine falling out after you fire your gun, due to the recoil, which is Blowers' point, not that you couldn't handle a gun dry without the magazine falling out. Simply racking the slide doesn't generate the same forces.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    That doesn't take into account the magazine falling out after you fire your gun, due to the recoil, which is Blowers' point, not that you couldn't handle a gun dry without the magazine falling out. Simply racking the slide doesn't generate the same forces.
    I'm going to throw the flag on that one.

    The magazine is held in place by the pressure of the mag release against the side of the magazine, which is why shooters should be taught to depress the mag release until the mag falls clear.

    On the firing line we would occasionally hit the mag release on a student officer's pistol while it was in the holster in order to induce a fail to feed malfunction. As a rule the mags stayed in place throughout fire, WTF, tap rack and roll, bang process.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

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