Full contact first day was my experience.
Originally Posted by UNM1136
Full contact first day was my experience.
I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
The lunatics are running the asylum
Yippee ki-ayy, motherfucker!
The GIGN had some similar things from some reading I saw.
Anytime I hear someone say shoot a weapon or try to disable a person. The credibility is gone. Especially because realistically most of us have not and will never been in an actual gun fight (civilian here).
I’d feel irresponsible telling a house mom or whatever “shoot the gun out of their hands” because honestly the blood is on your hands for that non-sense. Maybe not criminally or liability wise, but ethically. Also, that basically almost all defensive shooting laws in the states are built around self-defense and it’s hard to articulate that when you do that.
I would think the empty chamber non-sense comes from a large conscript based military in Israel. Also, I’d imagine often it’s officers carrying them.
Just speculation on my part.
This and Krav Maga. There must be something in the water over there.
ETA: I’ll never forget a guy telling me he’d just rip somebody’s throat out and gouge their eyes out in self-defense. I was like “You practice that a lot?”.
Alright, back to work.
God Bless,
Brandon
Forever I've wanted to see a tough guy rip off someone's head and defecate down their neck.
Such tactics are used in Chimp H2H. Pull off your face and testicles.
You know where else you see that? Every American law enforcement academy for the last 60 years. In one class you might have striker fired, SAO, DA/SA, DAO, and of course varieties of each. My academy class (which was minute ago) sure did. Granted we're not "shoot dudes in the knee" good, but I think neither are the Israelis.
Edit to add...
As I think through it, my class had:
1x 1911
1x P220 DA/SA
1x PX4
2x USP DA/SA
4x P229 DAK
3x P226 DA/SA
1x XD
1x S&W third gen DAO
1x Taurus PT92 (top shooter...no joke)
Most of the rest were Glocks. We had 9mm, .40, .45, and one .357 SIG. I'm probably missing a couple of guns that weren't Glocks. There were 46 of us.
Again, it was a minute ago...nobody had a weapon light (two guys had Insight M3s in belt pouches), there were definitely no optics, the M&P was not commercially available yet. Everybody thought the .40 and .45 we're really hot shit. Those were the days.
Last edited by DaBigBR; 06-14-2022 at 09:58 PM.
I'm guessing that's bring your own and not issued. When your dept is going to be issuing guns like that you'll be carrying chamber empty because today it may be an XD but next month it might be a HiPower or a Beretta Cheetah 380 or a CZ 70 32acp. An old CZ75 with no decocker, Sig 226, 228, Tokarev, back to HiPower and end with a home grown Jericho!! Some of their guns weren't designed to be carried chambered. Is that anything like what you've seen here in the last 60 years? The only way to get everyone trained the same way regardless of if the gun was made in 1902 or 2022 is to train to carry on an empty chamber
My city PD (several thousand) has been Glock 17 since 88. Today they allow any Glock other than 9mm provided you pay for ammo.
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Last edited by 4RNR; 06-14-2022 at 11:09 PM.
These were mostly issued guns at a state run academy. Of several hundred agencies in the state, only a handful (the largest) have their own academies.
No American law enforcement agency that I am aware of anywhere authorizes, encourages, or trains carrying with an empty chamber. None. This includes places with thousands of guys carrying one gun and places with several types authorized. Basic handgun safety and marksmanship is 95% the same regardless of trigger mechanism. If this type of poor logic is what led the Israelis to choose to train this way, so be it, but it doesn't make it a good idea, or common.
Large departments issue guns to recruits. Small departments also issue guns to officers but they typically go through the academy on their own dime and with whatever firearm they own. So you may go through the academy with a Taurus or a desert eagle but you'll get whatever the department that hires you uses. In this case the gun you used in training is irrelevant. It's not going to be what you'll carry, not even if it happens to be the same gun that your agency issues.
Very very few departments here allow you to bring your own. I know of 2 and both are small. We're talking 3-5 officers. One department is underfunded, they still use donated mini 14s from the 90s. The other is in a wealthy area but it's redundant. It's a department within a department. Everywhere else the gun is issued.
I never said it was a good idea, or common. Just why they do it
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Whatever you say, man. Those are massive generalizations that do not prove out on a national scale.
It was unclear with your previous post whether this "empty chamber = uniform training" thing was something you personally agreed with since you essentially posted it as fact in your reply.
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