Don't Shoot to Kill - Israeli Perspective for Americans?

[AMC]

Some detail missing from @4RNR's post is the fact that the safety/quality and condition of some of the firearms being carried precluded loaded chamber carry. That, and the variations (or even availability) of holsters for those sidearm.

Factor into that equation the level of knowledge and experience of their Firearms Instructor Cadre at the time in the use of handguns, and the methods of the time become understandable. Hell....American policing at the time was using training methods that we would consider suboptimal, too. And the American military was also training empty chamber carry for semiautomatic sidearm. Remember....this was Israeli military training we're talking about.

In context of the time, it's understandable. The total fail is that anybody today is still teaching or advocating any of this stupidity with modern firearms, modern holsters, and better training methods available.

[Caballoflaco]

In context of the time, it's understandable. The total fail is that anybody today is still teaching or advocating any of this stupidity with modern firearms, modern holsters, and better training methods available.

How many times have people popped up trying to promote the Fairbairn curriculum like it was some sort of ancient ninja scroll rather than a program designed to teach peasant Chinese policeman who may get 6-12 practice shots before being sent out to the streets of Hong Kong? I remember that being rampant on the internets back in the early to mid 2000’s.

[willie]

I had to quit reading this stuff about empty chambers and police officers and l.e. academies. The adult males in my family insisted that I carry my 1911 with an empty chamber. When I decided to shoot a rock, dirt clod, or stump, I jacked a round in the chamber. I did the same with any and all pistols including 22's.

[Clusterfrack]

I had to quit reading this stuff about empty chambers and police officers and l.e. academies. The adult males in my family insisted that I carry my 1911 with an empty chamber. When I decided to shoot a rock, dirt clod, or stump, I jacked a round in the chamber. I did the same with any and all pistols including 22's.

A good friend (who is a USPSA Production Master) carries his Glock with an empty chamber. While this is very much not what I do or recommend, I understand that some people just aren’t comfortable carrying a gun that is ready to shoot.

[BigDaddy]

In Chicago you purchase your own gun from a preapproved list of what is authorized. I believe Boston might be the same way as I trained with a guy from the Boston PD a couple of years ago and IIRC, that's what he said. I also believe LAPD has the same policy, not one hundred percent sure though. NYPD, don't know.

[TC215]

Large departments issue guns to recruits.

You may want to check with the largest police department in the country on that.

[4RNR]

You may want to check with the largest police department in the country on that.

NYPD? They issue G17 & 19 gen4

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....tter-guns/amp/

"......The department introduced the Glock 17, Generation 4, to newbies in the Police Academy in July, and is offering it free to all new classes of recruits."

"Recruits, who are issued a service weapon in the academy at no cost, get to pick among the Glock 17 and two other guns that have been offered for years — the compact Glock 19 and the Sig Sauer P226. Most are picking the Glock 17, Caroli said..."

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[TC215]

NYPD? They issue G17 & 19 gen4

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....tter-guns/amp/

"......The department introduced the Glock 17, Generation 4, to newbies in the Police Academy in July, and is offering it free to all new classes of recruits."

"Recruits, who are issued a service weapon in the academy at no cost, get to pick among the Glock 17 and two other guns that have been offered for years — the compact Glock 19 and the Sig Sauer P226. Most are picking the Glock 17, Caroli said..."

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

That’s relatively new. NYPD officers bought their own guns for decades.

but veteran cops are angry that, unlike rookies, they’ll have to pony up $525 if they want to upgrade to the better firepower.

[4RNR]

That’s relatively new. NYPD officers bought their own guns for decades.

I always understood that they were issued something but had an opportunity to buy something else on the approved list.

Back around 2008-2010 a guy I used to work with son is/was a NYPD internal affairs detective. He was issued a 5906. Only reason I know is he was asking me where his son could get extra mags. Apparently his apartment was robbed and mags stolen. I guess he was debating on just buying some and not saying anything or asking the department for more but then he'd probably have to explain why. Either way he said it was issued. His son didn't feel like spending money on buying something he would be given anyway


Right, so the veterans already have guns. If they wanted to "trade" for a new G17.4 they'd have to buy it

The largest department here does the same thing. Recruits are issued a G17 but they can carry any Glock they want on their own dime. If it happens to be anything other than a 9mm the ammo is also on their dime

[BigDaddy]

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