Don't Shoot to Kill - Israeli Perspective for Americans?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here's an interesting article on the Japanese J frame choice for a service revolver and their gun culture: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gu...vice-revolver/

[OlongJohnson]

Here's an interesting article on the Japanese J frame choice for a service revolver and their gun culture: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gu...vice-revolver/

Now I want a Japanese P9.

[rcbusmc24]

Now I want a Japanese P9.

This is the only good thing to come out of this thread about the Izzies, which haven't had a good idea about actual gunfighting since the UZI was invented...

[UNM1136]

I dunno about Israel, but I went to Japan for a couple of weeks to do martial arts. 1-3 lessons a day at different Dojos, half a dozen or so different instructors. Sword work, knife work, kunai, grappling, striking.

Not a single liability waiver to sign. Anywhere. Instructors taught at private dojo, public dojo (the Tokyo Budokan was awesome!), and public parks.

It seems, that the Japanese believe that if you are participaing in something, like say, learning fighting styles, that you might get hurt. There is no civil liability if you voluntarily participate in such things. You would be laughed out of court and publicly humiliated if you tried.

So reduced lawsuits based on culture and legal philosophy are a thing.

On a side note: convictions are much easier to get when you are allowed to beat confessions out of people. True story.

pat

[Joe in PNG]

Can we be done with pretending we should pay attention to anything these people say about firearms? Or firearms training? Sorry....I dont give a flying fuck what the Israeli Police do in their firearms training. It is legally, practically and morally totally irrelevant to me. The fact they anybody still perpetuates some of this old school Israeli bullshit is maddening. Israel is not the US. Their laws are not the same, their Constitution (government structure) is not the same, their history of military training (where this shit came from) is not the same. I also don't care what the British, Pakistani or Japanese police do. The only thing worse than American Police firearms training is the training given to every other Police force in the world.

We could also probably point out that when it comes to shooting bad guys to make them stop doing bad guy stuff, the USA has way more actual real world experience- LE, .Mil, Civvie, ect- then pretty much everyone else.

And that codified experience looks nothing like what the fanbois of Shanghai or Israel or anywhere else tend to push.

[Joe in PNG]

On a side note: convictions are much easier to get when you are allowed to beat confessions out of people. True story.

pat

True, it may not actually be the guy who did the crime, but it makes the stats look good. The joke about the bear confessing he's a rabbit after getting grabbed by the KGB comes to mind.

[Mercworx]

We could also probably point out that when it comes to shooting bad guys to make them stop doing bad guy stuff, the USA has way more actual real world experience- LE, .Mil, Civvie, ect- then pretty much everyone else.

And that codified experience looks nothing like what the fanbois of Shanghai or Israel or anywhere else tend to push.

Anecdotal but I served as an infantryman in both the IDF and US Army. Obviously trained to basic infantryman standard which isn’t anything special. Besides tactics around room clearing I found the two training curriculums to be largely similar. One thing I did note though was the disconnect between what I learned while in the IDF vs what instructors with “IDF” backgrounds taught privately. I’m under the impression now the “Israeli” branded training industry is rampant with frauds.

You see the same thing with Krav Maga as a martial art. No such thing really exists in the IDF. When you do KM training it’s basically a bunch of scenarios designed to increase confidence and aggression. Plus a bunch of PT. I think the days of Israel being the default subject matter experts on anti/counter terrorism passed decades ago and certainly prior to Americas GWOT.

[11B10]

Looks like someone is just jealous in their final weeks on the job that their dream from the 90s never came true....

Well, TGS, I hope you're reeeeaal pleased with yourself. Your video contribution succeeded in causing my coffee to be launched through my nose. I dunno which "tactic" was my favorite - it was a tie between the "daisy chain" and the spinning stud with an AR.

Thanks, buddy.

[Ed4032]

Just shoot the gun out of the bad guys hand.

Just like Roy Rogers. My hero.

[Kyle Reese]

Quick summary:

• Unethical or unqualified trainers are going to make money
• More people are going to file lawsuits when bad guys are killed by police
• More good LEOs are going to decide to do something else
• Innocent people are going to get killed as a direct result of this idiocy

Did I miss anything?

You've summed it up quite nicely.