Fight Lights

[SoCalDep]

The more time I put into this, the less concerned I am about momentary lights, particularly momentary only. Fighting in the dark is a massively complicated task and for every person I've seen accidentally click a light on constant, I've seen a dozen have trouble properly aiming the light and/or working the switch because they were too focused on trying to "properly" use momentary light. My current position is that as long as you are doing something useful with the light, it can be on.

My lens is trying to train line level police officers with minimal low light time. The context of the average domestic police shooting says the more light I have down range the more information I can gather, the better decisions I can make, and the more work I can do. We wasted a lot of time (relative to what was available) for a lot of years trying to get guys to work a momentary light optimally and we paid for it in other areas.

I don't much care which switchology you like, but you'd damned well better be proficient with it. Except for strobe...strobe is stupid.

I would disagree with the equipment conclusion but totally agree with the complexity issue and the average police officer issue.

In reality, the average officer will not develop the skill to appropriately use a hand held light in congunction with a pistol. Lets look at about every body cam video where an officer attempts to use a handgun/light technique where the light is near the gun. Where is the light pointed? Mostly at the ground. That's because under stress we do what we're used to and we mostly train to grip the gun without the light. It's motor skills 101 but law enforcement calculus and trigonometry plus astrophysics. Switching for most cops doesn't matter at all becaus the light won't be pointed at the threat anyway... it will just make the user a better target. Yay.

Techniques taught must be simple and equipment should echo simplicity. Momentary only works well for this. Training should include the minimal number of techniques necessary to accomplish the task so that the repetition necessary to build skill (which will still be inadequeate) will be as focused as possible. I've seen "clicky" lights on when they shouldn't be (a lot) and off when they shouldn't be (a lot). Momentary exhibits the same problems, but is more in tune with what we know (push the gas to go, let off to slow/stop) as opposed to the extra click when you pushed too hard or didn't push hard enough.

Interestingly, I recommend the opposite for a weapon mounted light. Toggle switches suck under stress and are very rarely used. If they are used, constant-on is the best for allowing the mental working memory necessary for the fight. Pressure switches are much more applicable for basic patrol use but because some administrators and a poorly though-out Force Science article think that pressure switches equal negligent discharges they are not so common. What is common is shooting the wrong person in the dark. It happens. It happens more than those administrators would admit, but it's easier to justify killing the wrong person in the dark than it is to train people to use the tool that would prevent that.

That's not just for cops... Regular people shoot the wrong people too. The problem is that if they had training it's usually from the cops who have the same bad habits. We can and we damn well should be better. If a motivated non-cop wants to learn to use a light the right way, they need to be very careful who they approach for training.

I'm happy to hear the Sig class addressed some of this because I've had good experiences with their training in the past and I've had some VERY bad experiences with low light training from other entities.

[DaBigBR]

I think my post suffered a bit from being in a hurry to get it completed before time to leave for work, too.

I definitely see the benefit and point to a momentary function, I'm not so sure about a light with no constant on, though. I get that the thread title is pretty specifically about "fighting" lights, but part of the trouble is that most users do not have a light "just for fighting" anymore than most people carry a blade "just for fighting." The flashlight is arguably the ultimate admin tool, and in that role, constant on is often the most useful feature. Any handheld that only has momentary or only has constant will serve to quickly illustrate all of the times you wish you had the other option. I think a lot of folks have seen a version of this with weapon mounted lights on rifles with momentary only when they realize all of the times they need to open or close a door, move some brush, flip a light switch, or any number of other things that require sacrificing the use of the light to perform another task.

I only own a couple of handhelds that are "momentary only", which I toss in quotes because they are Surefires with twist for constant. I think that's a decent compromise, unless you need to turn the light off with one hand. I also think there is something to be said for lights with discrete switching for constant and momentary, like the Surefire Stilleto or maybe even the Inforce WMLx, which has a 180 degree throw switch to toggle between functions.

[NH Shooter]

Another excellent flashlight post. Where do you get the split ring?

Thanks!

I purchase the split rings on Amazon. I find the 3/8" / 10 mm size just right - https://www.amazon.com/Split-Wisdomp...ef=sr_1_3_sspa

[NH Shooter]

I definitely see the benefit and point to a momentary function, I'm not so sure about a light with no constant on, though. I get that the thread title is pretty specifically about "fighting" lights, but part of the trouble is that most users do not have a light "just for fighting" anymore than most people carry a blade "just for fighting."

This is an excellent point, something that should be kept in mind for the context of this thread - one needs to embrace the two-light carry mindset to optimally configure a light for self-defensive purposes.

At least in my mind a fight light is a one-trick pony, but is extraordinarily well-suited for that purpose. For this reason, I carry two lights: one well suited for common tasks but could still be pressed into service as a fight light, and a dedicated fight light.

If one is using a WML on their pistol, I think the majority consensus is that a hand held needs to be carried as well. My thinking here is the same, except the "WML" is not attached to the pistol. Here are two lights that IMO cover the two-light-carry school of thought well;




The Quark has a normal clicky switch with momentary on partial press, and has a broad (low-candela) beam that is set for 55 lumens with bezel loose and 780 lumens with the bezel tight. It only weighs 2.2 ounces and is truly no effort to carry. This "administrative light" gets the vast majority of my EDC use. But if I'm in a low-light situation that I sense a threat might be present, it's the fight light that's in-hand.

[Rex G]

My favorite, for a number of years, has been the Surefire Digital LX2. I have accumulated several. I do not know what the current version would be, or if it still exists in their line-up. This series is slimmer than the original 6P/9P, but larger in diameter than the E-series. They are dual-output-level lights, but one reaches the brighter setting by pressing farther, which is dead-simple. A slight push activates the lower-output setting, and a firmer push activates the higher-output setting. Releasing the pressure shuts off the light.

Fightin’ or daily-carryin’; same light. I do not schedule fights. If I anticipate a fight, it is time to choose a weapon with an accessory rail, and affix a Surefire X300U-series light.

[NH Shooter]

My favorite, for a number of years, has been the Surefire Digital LX2.

Nice light!


Photo below shows my "ice pick" grip - the pinkie is placed under the light for improved directional control and alignment with the sights. I use the MCP joint of the thumb to operate the switch, which results in a more natural grip as opposed to using the tip of the thumb. The grip ring is placed between the index and middle fingers, helping to anchor the light.

I find gripping the light this way provides a secure, comfortable hold and excellent control of the momentary switch. It works equally as well with the Quark, and whether the light is deployed in a Harries, FBI or neck hold;




Regardless of the light or the grip used, repetition of gripping and presenting the light with the pistol is really the key and is a part of my regular dry fire practice.

[newyork]

Nice light!


Photo below shows my "ice pick" grip - the pinkie is placed under the light for improved directional control and alignment with the sights. I use the MCP joint of the thumb to operate the switch, which results in a more natural grip as opposed to using the tip of the thumb. The grip ring is placed between the index and middle fingers, helping to anchor the light.

I find gripping the light this way provides a secure, comfortable hold and excellent control of the momentary switch. It works equally as well with the Quark, and whether the light is deployed in a Harries, FBI or neck hold;




Regardless of the light or the grip used, repetition of gripping and presenting the light with the pistol is really the key and is a part of my regular dry fire practice.

I’m curious what your carry method is for fight lights with no pocket clips like the one in your ice pick picture.

[Totem Polar]

Great idea for a thread, @NH Shooter.

May I ask your thoughts on the dual-stage/dual output gas pedal type switches, eg., the ones on surefires where you mash them for full output momentary? Still GTG?

[NH Shooter]

I’m curious what your carry method is for fight lights with no pocket clips like the one in your ice pick picture.

Rides in the left front pocket of a pair of Duluth relaxed-fit Foreman's pants as shown (bezel down);




The pouch is from CountyComm that contains my keys and a spare cell in in a Delrin locker. The light rides quite stable loose in the pocket, and is easy to access.

[NH Shooter]

Great idea for a thread, @NH Shooter.

May I ask your thoughts on the dual-stage/dual output gas pedal type switches, eg., the ones on surefires where you mash them for full output momentary? Still GTG?

I have no experience with the gas pedal switch, but it certainly seems preferable to one that requires multiple clicks to change output.

I remain a fan of single output regardless of how hard I push the switch. For switching output level, I remain a fan of a bezel switch as used in the old Quarks and as offered by Malkoff for their full size lights;




This is my bed stand fight light, a Malkoff M91T head on their MD3 body and a Lumens Factory tailcap. At 6-1/8" AOL and 8.8 ounces it's not ideal for EDC, but is a very capable light.